Advice for the Future (character build)

[Tomcat]

I've now completed everything I can in 6.10 with the exception of grinding for legendaries, which I don't plan to do before next release ... too boring and I have too much else to do.

I also don't have time or inclination to start another character, and so I'm still running the first character I ever created, back in 6.07, and I plan to continue running him until I beat the first full release. The build process has been rather inefficient, shifting from a focus on HP and defense at the beginning to a late appreciation of the power of crit hits. This is the first RPG I've played where on leveling you had to choose been upping HP and upping other stats like AC, BC, and AD, and it took me a long while to let go of upping my precious HP every single chance. I also sold off Venomous Dagger and Vacor's Boots, as I was still focused on my weapon as sole source of AD, and especially armor as sole source of BC, which I was eager for. Would know better now.

Anyways, here I am now:

Stats:
Level 28
HP 113
AC 135%
AD 11-12 (with DoSP)
BC 69%
CC 43%
CM 3.75
AP 11, move cost 6
Skills: Hard Hit 1, More Crit 2, Better Crit 1, Combat Speed 1, Quick Learner 1, Enduring Body 1

Gear:
DoSP
Leather cap
Superior chain mail
Jewel of Fallhaven
Superior wooden shield
Troublemaker's gloves
Defender's boots
Polished ring of backstabbing
Ring of shadow embrace
Spares: Flagstone's Pride, Shadow of the slayer, RoDam+6

Decisions:
Keep all three weapons? Slayer is nice for wandering roads, being able to see minor monsters as Hit-Points-on-the-Hoof instead of wasting healing between beds, but is too slow for the tough dungeons. DoSP is best for crit but lower damage than FP and has same AP cost. DoSP in the long run, for sure, but how long do I keep the others in the rotation, and in what situations?

I will need to boost AC and AD alot in future levels, but how do I balance the two? Which needs the most help? Leaning toward AC: takes more hits to get more crits...

I am thinking of focusing skills on more crits, rather than AC/AD, though. Resistances are also worth some points, and also AP, but again, how to prioritize?

Upgrade leather cap to fine, but I can't seem to find one.

Upgrade to Strong Wooden Tower, despite loss of 2AC?

Worth playing around with max attack without crits? Quickstrike dagger and Gloves of Swift Attack, for instance?

Anyways, not looking for critique on existing build path so much as advice for the future.

[mirajp1]

Anyways, here I am now:
Stats:
Level 28
HP 113
AC 135%
AD 11-12 (with DoSP)
BC 69%
CC 43%
CM 3.75
AP 11, move cost 6
Skills: Hard Hit 1, More Crit 2, Better Crit 1, Combat Speed 1, Quick Learner 1, Enduring Body 1

I would suggest you to get another polished ring of backstabbing or villains ring. They would help to increase AC and AD neglecting the loss of HP by removing Ring of Shadow embrace as you have sufficient HP.Get a skill or two in Fortitude as early so you don't have to think about HP.

Decisions:
Keep all three weapons? Slayer is nice for wandering roads, being able to see minor monsters as Hit-Points-on-the-Hoof instead of wasting healing between beds, but is too slow for the tough dungeons. DoSP is best for crit but lower damage than FP and has same AP cost. DoSP in the long run, for sure, but how long do I keep the others in the rotation, and in what situations?

I would say that you have to try and try to get best possible.For eg I used Slayer in gargoyle caves and increasing DR 2-3 helps a lot in there. I have not used a potion after using slayer and then getting ROL.
For instance I removed jewel of fallhaven and used necklace of protector there (DR +2).

I will need to boost AC and AD alot in future levels, but how do I balance the two? Which needs the most help? Leaning toward AC:I takes more hits to get more crits...

for this if you are confused increase them alternatively on each level.
and dont use any Skill Points for AC and AD .I have done that and now I repent that

I am thinking of focusing skills on more crits, rather than AC/AD, though. Resistances are also worth some points, and also AP, but again, how to prioritize?

first increase AP and then you can choose any other.
Also corpse eater and regeneration are great if you like it.

Upgrade leather cap to fine, but I can't seem to find one.

sorry I forgot where I bought them

Upgrade to Strong Wooden Tower, despite loss of 2AC?

after you have high AC you can go for it.

Worth playing around with max attack without crits? Quickstrike dagger and Gloves of Swift Attack, for instance?

yes this helps a lot untill you get high AC.You can surely use them and its a good set.

Anyways, not looking for critique on existing build path so much as advice for the future.

Grind up few levels around 40-45.Start with gargoyle caves and then BWM an atlast Iqhan caves.

[Tomcat]

I would suggest you to get another polished ring of backstabbing or villains ring. They would help to increase AC and AD neglecting the loss of HP by removing Ring of Shadow embrace as you have sufficient HP.Get a skill or two in Fortitude as early so you don't have to think about HP.

Agreed that Rosie doesn't do all that much for me. I already replaced out with my +6RoD to good effect, but have had half an eye on those other two also. Wonder which I'll

I would say that you have to try and try to get best possible.For eg I used Slayer in gargoyle caves and increasing DR 2-3 helps a lot in there. I have not used a potion after using slayer and then getting ROL.
For instance I removed jewel of fallhaven and used necklace of protector there (DR +2).

I haven't thought much about DR ... it would save on potions, I guess, but doesn't it take many levels of it to make much of a difference?

for this if you are confused increase them alternatively on each level.
and dont use any Skill Points for AC and AD .I have done that and now I repent that

I was hoping to become *less*confused lol. Which stat is in more immediate need?

first increase AP and then you can choose any other.
Also corpse eater and regeneration are great if you like it.

The second level of Combat Speed when it's available (level 32 I believe) does look like a good bet, yes. Wish you could get more than two! Not sure how good the HP gainers are, at least at first, but could see them being worthwhile at higher levels. Cleave would rock in a dungeon full of one-hit monsters, but then you're in too easy a dungeon to be interesting, IMO.

Upgrade leather cap to fine, but I can't seem to find one.

sorry I forgot where I bought them

Will have to recheck all the shops and the tavern thieves...it wasn't a drop, was it?

Upgrade to Strong Wooden Tower, despite loss of 2AC?

after you have high AC you can go for it.

...for some definition of "high AC" ... Will have to try to notice if I find myself thinking "I hit them plenty, but they just seem hit me too much before I can get rid of them"....

yes (QsD and GoSA) helps a lot until you get high AC.You can surely use them and its a good set.

Might be worth a try, but I'm so geared for crits now, giving them up seems like a big loss. Really need to sit down and compute average expected damage per round vs various BC levels ....

Anyways, not looking for critique on existing build path so much as advice for the future.

Grind up few levels around 40-45.Start with gargoyle caves and then BWM an atlast Iqhan caves.

Not a chance. Grinding up levels just to boost stats, without advancing a quest, or exploring and beating a new dungeon would just bore me. If that's what it takes to be successful at this game, I'll find another.

I know that alot of people are grinding up to level 70, 100, 150....mostly trying to land the set of legendaries, but I hope the dev team doesn't decide that they should therefore make the next release so hard that you have to start out that high in order to have a fighting chance.

[Pyrizzle]

Not a chance. Grinding up levels just to boost stats, without advancing a quest, or exploring and beating a new dungeon would just bore me. If that's what it takes to be successful at this game, I'll find another.

I know that alot of people are grinding up to level 70, 100, 150....mostly trying to land the set of legendaries, but I hope the dev team doesn't decide that they should therefore make the next release so hard that you have to start out that high in order to have a fighting chance.

I kinda hope they do release a new harder area with each new release. Dont get me wrong, there is definitly a need for more quests/dungeons for lower level players but as of right now the whole game can be beaten by lvl 20 easily.

The grind to get the gear we want is a long one and after finally getting our prize usually you are such a high level that there isnt any place to take it fo a good test run.

All my gear is set twards a High CC and AD.

[mirajp1]

Not a chance. Grinding up levels just to boost stats, without advancing a quest, or exploring and beating a new dungeon would just bore me. If that's what it takes to be successful at this game, I'll find another.

I know that alot of people are grinding up to level 70, 100, 150....mostly trying to land the set of legendaries, but I hope the dev team doesn't decide that they should therefore make the next release so hard that you have to start out that high in order to have a fighting chance.

I know that but the game is in development so we have to be patient about the easiness and hardness.
The developers probably knows this and they will come up with something.
Also, I had left the game at lvl 24 getting bored and then I came back and with a goal of achieving Legendary items I didn't get bored.
Oskar and his team is making this game better in their free time so it will take time for updates.

[Tomcat]

I kinda hope they do release a new harder area with each new release. Dont get me wrong, there is definitly a need for more quests/dungeons for lower level players but as of right now the whole game can be beaten by lvl 20 easily.

The grind to get the gear we want is a long one and after finally getting our prize usually you are such a high level that there isnt any place to take it fo a good test run.

All my gear is set twards a High CC and AD.

There's only so much new area to be added in a given release, and even only so much to fill in the final world map, I would think, so if there is a level 100 dungeon included, there is that much less area for levels 20-100 to be earned actually playing the game (i.e. fulfilling quests and exploring the entire world to find Andor), as opposed to mere grinding through the same monsters over and over.

If a bunch of people have spent hours upon hours of repetitive slashing building characters that are ridiculously overpowered, then why should the rest of us be forced to follow suit in order to complete the game?

Give me a big enough world with enough quests that you'll be around level 80-100 just to do everything once, and I'll be happy for it to finish with a level 100 dungeon. If I manage to get through it all and only be level 80, then I'll relish the extra challenge.

Throwing in a level 100 dungeon into the next release just to keep the impatient from being bored waiting for the one after would just skew the final game, it seems to me.

Actually, one of my critiques of the game is that there is already too much grinding necessary just to get the first few levels, and gold for survivable gear and enough potions to give you a realistic shot at the tougher dungeons. I'd actually like to see some "infill" - added low- to mid-level quests and maps where you can earn those things while you explore and achieve new things ... which is what the game is all about.

[nyktos]

well said sir!

if you read oskars posts...
it seems he is most interested in -
*quest driven game play
*choices we make as players
*story progression

that being said...
i still feel that you will hafta "work" to move on
but grinding IS NOT what the final product is about.

however long this game takes to complete,
we are here to give feedback - not beg for dungeons that only a few hundred people can enjoy

although - i would be pleased if we were tossed a bone & had something challenging to do next

[Tomcat]

well said sir!

if you read oskars posts...
it seems he is most interested in -
*quest driven game play
*choices we make as players
*story progression

that being said...
i still feel that you will hafta "work" to move on
but grinding IS NOT what the final product is about.

however long this game takes to complete,
we are here to give feedback - not beg for dungeons that only a few hundred people can enjoy

although - i would be pleased if we were tossed a bone & had something challenging to do next

You mean besides starting a new character to re-optimize your build given the (hopefully) improved game balance?

How about a "bonus round", where you get transported to a cave which is filled with every boss monster you've beaten so far, all in a space too small to flee. No drops of anything you've got in your inventory or gear. But if you clear the entire cave, the last one drops one random legendary/extraordinary item. You have to discover the secret of getting there, which should be a tough quest to begin with, and it won't work again until you've beaten X new bosses to add to the cave, and are therefore transported to a slightly larger cave.

If you have hyper levels where even that isn't a challenge, then you get multiples of each, appropriate to your level. I'd be happy to give the design a crack, and offer the poor bored level 100 grinders the chance to help playtest the alpha so we all get the benefit of their determination to put in more hours of gametime waiting for 6.11 or 7.0.1 or whatever the next one gets called.

Oskar? Anyone? Buehler?

[Pyrizzle]

Next update: V0.6.11

[ncer]

There's only so much new area to be added in a given release, and even only so much to fill in the final world map, I would think, so if there is a level 100 dungeon included, there is that much less area for levels 20-100 to be earned actually playing the game (i.e. fulfilling quests and exploring the entire world to find Andor), as opposed to mere grinding through the same monsters over and over.

If a bunch of people have spent hours upon hours of repetitive slashing building characters that are ridiculously overpowered, then why should the rest of us be forced to follow suit in order to complete the game?

Give me a big enough world with enough quests that you'll be around level 80-100 just to do everything once, and I'll be happy for it to finish with a level 100 dungeon. If I manage to get through it all and only be level 80, then I'll relish the extra challenge.

Throwing in a level 100 dungeon into the next release just to keep the impatient from being bored waiting for the one after would just skew the final game, it seems to me.

Actually, one of my critiques of the game is that there is already too much grinding necessary just to get the first few levels, and gold for survivable gear and enough potions to give you a realistic shot at the tougher dungeons. I'd actually like to see some "infill" - added low- to mid-level quests and maps where you can earn those things while you explore and achieve new things ... which is what the game is all about.

What about areas that scale with your character?

Before I had been thinking about clone / shapeshifter like monsters that would fully or partially copy Andor. Say when one of these monsters manages to hit you it gains your AC, or another could copy your AD, etc. Better ones might copy more things, even becoming a full clone. It wouldn't be hard to think of ones that actually have more abilities tagged on top of your basic ones. Obviously other triggers are thinkable, it could happen randomly if you're in the same room, randomly when the monsters are generated, they could copy stats from other monsters, heck, they could become a copy of a wall . It all depends on what's decided for the implementation, but I do think there's quite a lot of possibility.

Another way to do it would be for rooms to have some kind of source of strenght that improves the monsters in it based on your level, quests completed, number of monsters killed, etc. Possibly it could increase exponentially (so a low level character is safe where a high level character might not be). The source of strength could also be stronger or weaker based on your choices during the game, are you more evil or more good? Of course it could not just be strength, it might grant more or less abilities, perhaps even randomly. There could be a quest that turns on this source, or maybe a quest to destroy it (which might horibly fail to make it even stronger, who knows).

There could also be monsters that only attack stronger characters, only attack good characters, only attack evil characters, only those with high criticals (;)), etc.

The point is, there might be ways to make sure both the grinders and the regular players could both enjoy a room that is geared to become more and more challenging the higher you get if some thought is put into how the room would work.

As a grinder I like the boss room, but as a player enjoying quests I wouldn't really like it. I think that story wise it's makes more sense to have some big event that resets the world or some creature that has the capability to take on the form of other creatures (like the clone / shapeshifter suggestion earlier) rather than here we have a room where all the bosses go, unless it's like the entry towards the afterlife, but how did Andor wind up there then and if they are already dead, how is he fighting them?