Long time player feedback as of v8.12.1

[ameyngangal]

Background
I have played this game for about five years now with a total of six characters. The first version I played and completed was 7.4.x I believe. I have just finished a playthrough of the latest version with an unarmed (monk) build.

When I say completed/finished, I mean I have completed all the quests that could be completed at this point of time.

I'm writing this post to provide my honest feedback on the game, upto this point. This feedback will include both the strengths and weaknesses of the game and also some suggestions.

Additionally, my character and their stats/skills are shown below.

Andors-Trail-Character-Sheet.png

Note to developers
I very much enjoy this game. This is probably my single most-played Android game ever. Hence, I sincerely request that the negative points in this feedback are taken as constructive criticism.

Note to everyone else
For anyone who has not completed the game upto the available content, the below feedback may or may not contain spoliers based on the game content that you have completed.

For anyone who hasn't completed the entire game, I recommend you to stop reading here!

For game veterans and developers, click the Show button below.

Strengths

Content

• The development has been happening at a steady pace in the past couple of years, which is great news for any open-source project!
• The game developers have been fleshing out existing areas like Blackwater mountain, the areas towards supposed Feygard/Carn tower regions.
• A large part of the game world feels more organic/natural with the alternate path to Sullengrad, Laeroth island, Pony Island, etc.
• I absolutely love the new maps/regions around Blackwater mountain. Those routes are confusing, as mountains usually are in reality. This adds a feeling of desperation at least for low-mid level players as the fights constantly will drain through the player's supply of potions and cooked meat, giving it a survivial feeling.

Balance

• The game overall is well balanced with respect to the four major playstyles i.e. sword and shield, dual wielding, two-handed weapons and the way of the monk. All four types have good skills that can help them enjoy the mid and late game.

Weaknesses

Content

• In the recent updates, a lot of the new content feels more ... casual. Examples would be the Ratdom quests, how the torturer quest at Laeroth island is handled, and the Brutes quest. While I have no problem with more casual or laid back content, it seems to be increasing disproportionately compared to the more serious/story driven content. Basically, when was the last time a serious quest like the thieves guild quests about the key of Luthor, or the cutscenes that create mystery (remember how Crackshot dies and the suspicious package that is gotten there)?
• Adding on to the previous point, it feels like the main story content has not advanced much. Andor's involvement in the things happening in the land, the religions of Elythra, Kaazul and the Shadow, etc. When you complete both Lodar's questline and the Loneford illness questline and figure out the link between the two, the story advances significantly plot-wise. Content like that isn't coming out much in the past few updates.
• A large amount of the conent in the game seems to be concentrated in the future in either Feygard or Nor City. I agree that these are the major factions in the game which haven't been developed, but it feels like some of the missing pieces/questions are just answered in the game with - "you'll come to know about this in Feygard/Nor City!". I feel more independant, in-depth. story advancing questlines need to happen outside of these to-be-released cities. The Stoutford church questline is an excellent example of something that was deeply linked to the main story, while being independant of Feygard/Nor City. Same with the Loneford illness and Lodar's quests.
• More content needs to be added in some gameplay aspects - like healing for example. The option to cook the meat you collected was good. More needs to be done in this regard, specifically for food. At this moment, there would be very few high level players who don't have five-hundred pieces of cooked meat along with their potions. Why? Is Andor's brother exclusively a carnivore?
• More skills are really needed, to flesh out more possible playstyles. Yes, the rewards you get from the Charwood questline do this somewhat, but those are restricted by the limited availability of those niche types of weapons at higher tiers.

Balance

• Some skills really need to be re-worked and/or removed. I just want to know how many people have taken even a single point of Failure Mastery, Strong Mind, Enduring Body, Pure Blood or Rejuvenation. Take Rejuvenation for example. You need a total of 10 skill points to get Rejuvenation. That's basically 40 levels! Now, at that point, it is much more feasible to just improve block chance or carry stronger potions. Now, one may say, that the Taunt skill also requires 7 points i.e. 28 levels. However, the skill requirements you have for that skill are just all round much more useful than the ones for something like Rejuvenation. Additionally, the maximums on these skills are also insane and pointless. Say I have a monster giving me a tough time with poisons. To get a 70% resistance to it, I'll need 7 skill points i.e. 28 levels! Why would anyone not get the ring of poison immunity? 28 levels are more than enough to earn enough gold for it. Even without it, a character will be far more stronger 28 levels from now, that the monster giving them trouble will be small fry by then!
• Some skills are inconsistent in what they provide. For example, when leveling up, we can improve HP by 5, attack chance by 5, attack damage by 1 or block chance by 3. This sets up a reference which basically implies - 5 HP, 5 attack chance, 1 attack damage and 3 block chance are equally good to have. Now, considering this, the weapon accuracy, hard hit and dodge skills are kind of breaking the balance. Something like Hard Hit - +2 DAM, Weapon Accuracy - +10AC, Dodge - +6BC is more in line with natural level-ups. Or to make the skills more powerful, something like Hard Hit - +3 DAM, Weapon Accuracy - +15AC, Dodge - +9BC is also in line with the natural level-ups.
• Now, my final criticism might be controversial - Sullengrad areas. I can't remember who, maybe Jackson I feel once said in a comment that he likes that people find the area around Sullengrad to be very challenging. That this was needed for endgame players. I respectfully disagree. Not because I have a problem with challenging mobs, but because of how and where they are placed. There's this town that brews beer, supplies it to everyone via the thieves guild, has people coming in for the beer festival and all. And just a very short distance away from the town, there's a green snake that if entered the town, would single-handedly turn it into a graveyard. I agree that a fantasy game need not be logical with respect to the real world. But it must be logical from the perspective of the world it is set in! Having a few dozen snakes, that can annihilate a level 50 player in one turn (if they get 3 crits) outside of a thriving, bustling, social town, is way too hard to believe. There are places where the game poses a challenge to you at different points - the Lodar maze, Hirathril ghosts and the Hirazinn, the graveyard and the undead forest. These locations having tough enemies makes sense because they're far from civilization. Life isn't exactly thriving around them. Consider Blackwater and Primm for that matter. They logically show how much trouble those villagers are having, just to survive, due to the Gornauds and Wyrms. And here, Sullengrad is holding beer festivals with a few dozen snakes around them that can one-two shot almost any character with crits. Consider this now - the Queen Sullengrad Forest Snake and the Red Sullengrad Forest Snake are probably much more deadly than the Hirazinn! Does that make sense? A demon who drops a sword screaming with the souls of those it has slain, is puny compared to a couple of snakes outside town.

Suggestions

• What about some soups that someone (or perhaps you) could cook? Some recipies that you or some vendors could make from the ingredients you collected that give bonuses and/or maluses to stats.
• Perhaps merge the mind, body and blood resistance skills, which can have 4-5 levels. After which, one can take the Rejuvenation skill. Similarly, skills like failure mastery and quick learner can be merged into one skill with 5 levels.
• Rebalance the Weapon Accuracy, Hard Hit and Dodge skills to provide bonuses to AC, DAM and BC proportional to what level-ups give, but multiplied of course.
• Add hard content, please do. I enjoy it a lot. But it would be better if it's represented and placed better considering the setting/situations around it. For my character, Sullengrad is fairly easy now, but when it was hard, it was hard without a reason. It was difficult for the sake of being difficult. The areas around Stoutford, Fallhaven, Blackwater and Primm, also had wildlife - wolves, hounds, snakes too, foxes, etc. It made sense. They were monsters with sensible difficulty, not snakes who could 3-4 shot the Hirazinn.

[Antison]

The hero is not exclusively a carnivore. That's your choice.

Sullengard is hard to get to for a reason. Mostly because I built it that way. I wanted to challenge the players that were north of level 55. Plus there's some really really good items down there. I don't want the player to just be able to walk down there at a low level and gain those great items.

[ameyngangal]

The hero is not exclusively a carnivore. That's your choice.

Sullengard is hard to get to for a reason. Mostly because I built it that way. I wanted the challenge the players that were north of level 55. Plus there's some really really good items down there. I don't want the player to just be able to walk down there at a low level and gain those great items.

I understand your reason from a game balance/mechanics perspective. That's not where my criticism is. My criticism is in the way in which this difficulty is implemented. As I said, it's stretching it too much to believe that snakes around a very social town, organizing festivals, supplying beer etc. are tougher than the Hirazinn - a monster that appeared after ages due to something that someone did.

I liked the approach you took to BWM and Primm in this regard. BWM does have good gear available for that level. However, the traders are having a lot of trouble and refuse to trade with you unless they trust you. To gain their trust, you'll need to help them, which can be very difficult depending on what level you approach them.

In short, my criticism is only this - tough enemies are great if there's a narrative backing their difficulty. Toughness for the sake of sheer game balance is stretching it in my opinion. Lodar questline was tough, the graveyard was tough, Elm was tough not just due to the monster stats, but also because the narrative was setup such that difficulty was expected. If seasoned Feygard soldiers are being slaughtered in the mine, yes, it must be hard. Here, we have people visiting ponds, supplying beer, organizing festivals, and yet surrounded by enemies that would wipe out the whole town if they happened to slither into it.

Also, what do you think about the other points in my OP?

[ameyngangal]

The hero is not exclusively a carnivore. That's your choice.

Sullengard is hard to get to for a reason. Mostly because I built it that way. I wanted the challenge the players that were north of level 55. Plus there's some really really good items down there. I don't want the player to just be able to walk down there at a low level and gain those great items.

A couple of more points.

Regarding the carnivore point, I didn't mean it in the vegetarian vs carnivore way. I meant that cooked meat is the only healing option for which the player works towards at the moment. Hunting to collect meat, taking it to someone who can cook it, that way. I'm saying we should have other healing/buffing options in which the player needs to work to get those ingredients, then find someone who can make use of them to make something to heal/buff. The dish/recipie itself might be entirely plant based or meat based or mixed, anything really. Something like a cooking or potion making system for heals and buffs. Similar to the antidote and potion of deftness, just more options basically.

Regarding the difficulty scaling of Sullengrad, it reminded me of the game Skyrim (you might have heard of it or played it). Unmodded/vanilla Skyrim scales enemies with the player. Good for game balance, but in the end game, you find bandits having daedric i.e. God level weapons and armour. And you wonder, how does the civilization around these bandits survive?

[Antison]

The hero is not exclusively a carnivore. That's your choice.

Sullengard is hard to get to for a reason. Mostly because I built it that way. I wanted the challenge the players that were north of level 55. Plus there's some really really good items down there. I don't want the player to just be able to walk down there at a low level and gain those great items.

I understand your reason from a game balance/mechanics perspective. That's not where my criticism is. My criticism is in the way in which this difficulty is implemented. As I said, it's stretching it too much to believe that snakes around a very social town, organizing festivals, supplying beer etc. are tougher than the Hirazinn - a monster that appeared after ages due to something that someone did.
...
In short, my criticism is only this - tough enemies are great if there's a narrative backing their difficulty. Toughness for the sake of sheer game balance is stretching it in my opinion.

You're playing in a game that's fantasy. You need to suspend your
disbelief, logistical mind and just enjoy the illogical or fantasy

[Antison]

A couple of more points.

Regarding the carnivore point, I didn't mean it in the vegetarian vs carnivore way. I meant that cooked meat is the only healing option for which the player works towards at the moment.

Actually that's not true either. A lot of players really favor the hard biscuits over anything else.

You need to understand the game engine doesn't support the crafting system that you probably have in your head.
In order to get that recipe behavior takes a lot of effort from us and it's a pretty static implementation.

[Antison]

Also, what do you think about the other points in my OP?

Nor city and Feygard are massive. Of course there's going to be a lot of content pointing you in their direction.

You think you just need to be a little bit patient with us and realize that we are a small group of people working on a hobby project.
We are not perfect and we're not going to get you all of the content when you want it all of the time. Just going to have to sit back and wait and see what we deliver.

As far as the skills are concerned, we're really not going to be messing around with any of the existing skills. They are what they are for good or bad.

[Aereas]

Background

I'm writing this post to provide my honest feedback on the game, up to this point. This feedback will include both the strengths and weaknesses of the game and also some suggestions.

Amey,

I invite you to hop on the discord server where we discuss your points and many others on a daily basis. The forum, while checked frequently by the devs, is rather dead in comparison from a player engagement stance. Link is at the top.

~Kutsu

[sdevaney]

The issue with Discord is the ephemeral nature of the discussions. People regularly reply and update to years old discussions here.

[Kasi]

The hero is not exclusively a carnivore. That's your choice.

I don't see us getting much of a choice. I'm vegan IRL and would love to roleplay my diet in Andors Trail but it's simply not feasible.

The mushroom soup would be a great alternative to cooked meat however we only get one per day. Forcing the player to rest for almost two weeks just to obtain a dozen.

There are plenty of mushroom ingredients to match raw meat. Why not add a similar option to have soup made up to x20 like cooked meat?

Instead of culling the forests of natural beasts we could sustainably kill the mushroom monsters in bogstens cave.

Also the meat cooking NPC says he hunts and eats puppies. What's up with that? Care to explain your reasoning on creating this dialog? Then by limiting options knowing players will support this individual through recurring business?