Weapon Balancing

[Dreia]

I don't have access to all of the unique weapons but I took a look at the existing ones sold at the merchants. Most of them are all but useless even to those who are leveling up, and at the top end it's almost exclusively the poisoned dagger that see's any use. I've compiled a list of existing weapons and stats here for comparison:

CROSSGLEN
Wooden Club
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 00-01
Iron Club
AP 06, AC 05, DMG 02-07
Iron Sword
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 01-03
Iron Hammer
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 00-01
Giant Hammer
AP 10, AC 05, DMG 04-07
Iron Dagger
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 00-01
Sharp Iron Dagger
AP 04, AC 20, DMG 01-02
Superior Iron Dagger
AP 04, AC 25, DMG 01-02
Iron Shortsword
AP 04, AC 15, DMG 01-02
Iron Sword (2)
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 01-03
Iron Longsword
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 01-04
Iron Broadsword
AP 07, AC 02, DMG 01-10
Steel Broadsword
AP 06, AC 15, DMG 03-10
Steel Sword
AP 04, AC 24, DMG 03-07
Woodcutters Axe
AP 05, AC 05, DMG 01-03
Iron Axe
AP 06, AC 05, DMG 02-05


Inn at FALLHAVEN
Quickstrike Dagger
AP 03, AC 20, DMG 00-00, Block -20


VILEGUARD
Iron Hammer
Giant Hammer
Heavy Iron Club
AP 08, AC 15, DMG 02-11, Crit 05% x3
Balanced Heavy Iron Club
AP 07, AC 10, DMG 02-11, Crit 10% x3
Wooden Club
Iron Club
Iron Sword
Iron Longsword
Iron Broadsword
Steel Broadsword

Note that the Iron Sword is listed twice in Crossglen. Also the high AP hammers and such don't really have any benefit for loosing so many hits (consider the 5 possible attacks with the quick-strike dagger versus the 1 possible attack with the Giant Hammer)

A second note is that Vileguard doesn't actually have much by way of new items, most are simply repeats of things already found in the starter area.

I have gone through and made an attempt at a possible balancing of all the weapons as well as a redistribution between the 3 existing vendors in the game.

By Type:

Heavy Damage, high AP cost, low accuracy
Woodcutters Axe
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 02-03, Crit 2% x2.5
Wooden Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 03-04, Crit 2% x2
Iron Axe
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 02-05, Crit 4% x2.5
Iron Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 04-06, Crit 5% x2
Iron Hammer
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 04-08, Crit 5% x2.75
Heavy Iron Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 07-10, Crit 7% x2.25
Giant Hammer
AP 8, AC 05, DMG 08-15, Crit 7% x3
Balanced Heavy Iron Club
AP 7, AC 10, DMG 12-18, Crit 9% x2.5

Dual Wield, low base damage, high accuracy
Iron Dagger
AP 04, AC 10, DMG 00-01, Block -03, Crit 30% x1.25
Sharp Iron Dagger
AP 04, AC 12, DMG 00-02, Block -06, Crit 30% x1.25
Superior Iron Dagger
AP 03, AC 15, DMG -01-02, Block -08, Crit 38% x1.25
Quickstrike Dagger
AP 03, AC 12, DMG -01-02, Block -10, Crit 35% x1.5


Balanced Stats,
Iron Shortsword
AP 04, AC 12, DMG 01-02, Crit 15% x1.75
Iron Sword
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 01-03, Crit 18% x1.75
Iron Broadsword
AP 04, AC 15, DMG 03-06, Crit 15% x1.75
Iron Longsword
AP 05, AC 12, DMG 04-07, Crit 20% x1.75
Steel Broadsword
AP 04, AC 20, DMG 04-10, Crit 17% x2
Steel Sword
AP 05, AC 16, DMG 06-11, Crit 20% x2

By Location:

CROSSGLEN
Iron Dagger
AP 4, AC 10, DMG 00-01, Block -03, Crit 30% x1.25
Iron Shortsword
AP 4, AC 12, DMG 01-02, Crit 15% x1.75
Iron Sword
AP 5, AC 10, DMG 01-03, Crit 18% x1.75
Woodcutters Axe
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 02-03, Crit 2% x2.5
Wooden Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 03-04, Crit 2% x2
Iron Axe
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 02-05, Crit 4% x2.5
Iron Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 04-06, Crit 5% x2


INN at FALLHAVEN
Sharp Iron Dagger
AP 4, AC 12, DMG 00-02, Block -06, Crit 30% x1.25
Superior Iron Dagger
AP 3, AC 15, DMG -01-02, Block -08, Crit 38% x1.25
Iron Broadsword
AP 4, AC 15, DMG 03-06, Crit 15% x1.75
Iron Longsword
AP 5, AC 12, DMG 04-07, Crit 20% x1.75
Iron Hammer
AP 7, AC 00, DMG 04-08, Crit 5% x2.75
Heavy Iron Club
AP 6, AC 05, DMG 07-10, Crit 7% x2.25



VILEGUARD
Quickstrike Dagger
AP 3, AC 12, DMG -01-02, Block -10, Crit 35% x1.5
Steel Broadsword
AP 4, AC 20, DMG 04-10, Crit 17% x2
Steel Sword
AP 5, AC 16, DMG 06-11, Crit 20% x2
Giant Hammer
AP 8, AC 05, DMG 08-15, Crit 7% x3
Balanced Heavy Iron Club
AP 7, AC 10, DMG 12-18, Crit 9% x2.5

A couple of notes:

Yes all the weapons have some form of crit damage, balanced by the amount of base damage, however most are not as major (a 25% bonus versus a 300% bonus). Also an idea I added which may or may not be useful, and that was the idea of dual wielding daggers, IE if you have a dagger in your weapon slot you could equip a second dagger in your shield slot in place of the shield.

I don't have any stats on unique weapons, if anyone is interested in sending them to me I could add them to this list. Any thoughts on the idea as a whole is more than welcome and do remember that numbers are easily altered!

~D

P.S. Another idea I had counter to the dual wielding would be 2 handed weapons, if so then a good set would be staves.

High Block, Low Damage Moderate AP, two-handed
Cedar Staff
AP 05, AC 10, DMG 01-01, Block 06, Crit 2% x1.5
Oak Staff
AP 05, AC 12, DMG 02-03, Block 10, Crit 3% x1.5
Jeweled Staff
AP 05, AC 14, DMG 03-05, Block 14, Crit 4% x1.5
Bladed Staff
AP 05, AC 16, DMG 04-07, Block 18, Crit 5% x1.5
Possible Unique Quest Reward
Magister's Staff
AP 04, AC 16, DMG 05-06, Block 16, Crit 5% x1.75

Addition, Rank 5 and 6 weapons:

Guilded Pugio
AP 4, AC 16, DMG 01-04, Block -5, Crit 28% x1.5
Worn Wakizashi
AP 4, AC 24, DMG 05-12, Crit 18% x2
Shortened Claymore
AP 5, AC 19, DMG 08-14, Crit 22% x2
Light Battleaxe
AP 8, AC 07, DMG 11-18, Crit 7% x3
Flanged Mace
AP 7, AC 12, DMG 15-22, Crit 10% x2.5

Silver Stilleto
AP 4, AC 18, DMG 02-06, Block -8, Crit 32% x1.5
Scimitar
AP 4, AC 28, DMG 06-14, Crit 20% x2
Flambard
AP 5, AC 22, DMG 10-17, Crit 24% x2
Spiked Battleaxe
AP 8, AC 08, DMG 15-23, Crit 8% x3
Morning Star
AP 7, AC 13, DMG 19-30, Crit 10% x2.5
What could be considered rank 7 weapons, as part of the storyline one could through a series of quests get a weapon of their choice upgraded at a church which would reduce the AP cost of the weapon by 1 point.

Blessed Silver Stilleto, Holy Scimitar, Sanctified Flambarg, Perfect Spiked Battleaxe, White Morning Star

[sdevaney]

Interesting ideas, I look forward to going through them at more length soon.

[Dreia]

Did you get a chance to look things over? Any suggestions?

~D

[sdevaney]

Yes I have sorry I forgot to post back here but I would like to look at this again after v0.6.9 is released because there are some major changes happening both with AP and weapons/status effects.

[Dreia]

I figured that this was the case, I will go over this again when it comes out to see how the changes factor in.

~D

[oox]

Just wanted to second this.

When I first played the game I was kind of disappointed that when I was finally able to visit the merchants in Vilegard they had nothing valuable to offer.
Anyways I still didn't return there after the upgrade to 0.6.9 where things might have changed.

[qasur]

@Dreia: I've been in the same boat about weapons, but I think you've micro-managed their abilities a little too much.

Overall, look at the number of each weapon-type. There are a ton of Daggers and Swords, like 3 Clubs, 2 Axes, and 2 Hammers. There should probably be a much-healthier mix of weapons, or just a small amount of each type.

I think the reason most of the weapons aren't good is because you're given a huge list of 20 weapons to choose from, but its so easy to pick out of the best one because AP, AC, and DMG Range. AP 5 versus AP 6 is *huge* when it comes to weapons, so any weapon with AP 6 or more is basically AP10 when talking about swings per turn*.

To compensate for AP6+ weapons, they should have higher Min & Max damage, and probably big ranges, like some of the Hammers/Maces/Axes/Clubs should be like 5-15, basically big ranges with higher min and max dmg. From a realistic perspective, you're wildly swinging a heavy weapon with one hand. You're not accurate, so probably not much on AC from the weapon. Also, most of those martial weapons are associated with other effects, like Stun** and Cleave***. I would highly suggest making most of them do some form of Critical as well, but maybe lower Multipliers, like 0.5, 0.75, and x2, and maybe an awesome x3 one or something.

I think Swords and Daggers/Knives are fine as is, it's just the larger weapons that need help.

*Not including Jewel of Fallhaven into this directly. If you include JOF, then AP 7 and above weapons basically are terrible. And, if go to include the Speed Potion + JOF, then it's more down the rabbit hole. This comparison is just basic stat-by-stat of each weapon.

**Stun: I would suggest new abilities for weapons (like how we have Critical). Especially since we have actors on the legendary ones. Stun would be I would suggest for Clubs/Maces/Hammers. I'd make Stun be like "Stun X%". Like, if you successfully hit a character, then you have a percent-chance to "stun" which should make them have 0 AP next round. Or, even half-AP next round.

***Cleave: This would be the other suggested actor for Hammers/Axes/maybe swords. Cleave would just be "If you just killed a character, gain AP equal to amount you just spent to swing". Cleave is basically hitting so hard you slice/bash through a guy and hit another one. So, this could benefit large AP weapons with high damage and/or critical. If you one-hit a dude, you get to immediately swing again. I would suggest that these weapons provide a -%BC for balance reasons.

[Dreia]

I'm not sure how I'm micro-managing things, what you just posted is almost exactly what my original idea entails (I didn't add weapon effects as at the time of posting they didn't exist in the game).

Daggers are meant to be fast hitting low damage, many but small crits.
Swords a balance of damage, swings crit chance and severity
Blunt weapons which are cumbersome, but do massive damage and while rarely crit, can crit for a large amount.
And melee (staff) weapons which are based off of the sword but are dual wield.

~D

[qasur]

I was referring to your opening post, but not in a bad way.

The total number of weapons in the game needs to decrease.

[Dreia]

What I did was divide the weapons into tiers, so there is a rank 1 set and a rank 2 set etc.

~D