New player, comments, feelings, etc...

[Zukero]

Heh, and here I thought BDFL meant Best Dev For Life (similar to Best Friend For Life).

that's a good meaning for it too !

Back on topic, Axor, you have some very nice ideas in this post. It's been brought up in Sunday's dev meeting (my first one d=:)=b !!), and we'll have a thorough look into it. It's definitely the kind of insightful feedback we love to get !

I have to admit that this is not simple, and coding a game must be the most crazy time consuming thing, but im just thinking out loud my opinions, so don't take them as if im telling you what to do please.

Don't worry ! Actually, a good portion of the game design comes from posts like yours !

I especially like the "special abilities" one. Although I don't think we'll have a level cap (other than integer overflow maybe...), it gives ideas like after killing 100 times the same NPC, you get a bonus against it (or a special ability related to the type of NPC), then another boost at 1000, then another at 10000...
Reminds me of the first Fable on XBox, where attacking with magic gave you magic-only XP points, while attack with the sword gave you Force-only XP points. Drives your evolution by what you do and how you play.
We'll have to come up with something clever that will enhance but not clutter nor break the AT game system. It's gotta be cool, but not completely disruptive.

The item sets are often discussed, and I think that it's the kind of thing that will be made possible by my upcoming scripting engine (still a long way to go though...). We'll definitely want some thing like this (the BW set is already some kind of set, although the bonus is rather the non-stackable maluses).

XP reward variation has already been rejected. It's true that killing rats when you're level 100+ shouldn't learn you anything, but actually, the fixed XP reward is already balancing that : gaining 2XP when you need 1 000 000+ to level up is like gaining nothing... and killing 500 000 rats is an experience in itself that deserves a reward !

Character classes have also been rejected : you build your own class by choosing how you evolve with level ups and even more so with skills. Every one starts with the one same player (at least regarding stats, we have a gender option ongoing, potentially leading to several player skin choices later).

Teleportation/portals will not be included, however, some unlockable shortcuts can be an option.

- There's one in BWM to go back to Prim
- There's one planned to go back from Hira'Zinn to the beginning of the green maze
- There's one discussed to go back from Remgard to the spirde caves by boat

Who knows what can come next ?

I enjoyed the game and i thank you for that. It took me maybe a week to finish it, playing maybe 2 or 3 h per day. so i would say about 20 to 30 hours of gameplay. I just wish it was 100h like the old console RPGs use to state..

I think that when we'll reach v1.0, we won't be far from 100h of gameplay, but I don't know if it'll include the grinding for leg/ext items

[fiernaq]

Reading through the rest of this thread gave me an idea. What if, instead of portals, we did the following:

Once reaching a main location (Crossglen, Fallhaven, Crossroads Guardhouse, Foaming Flask Tavern, Remgard, etc...) you can visit an NPC that unlocks the "waypoint". The waypoint is a set location (one square) that you can step on which activates a dialogue. The dialogue options are to travel to any other waypoint.

Let's say you're going from Remgard back to Fallhaven. While in Remgard, you walk onto the waypoint and in the dialogue you choose to go to Fallhaven. Immediately, your character sets out at 1.5x the normal rate of travel, following the road (pre-set path) to your destination. You watch as your character moves along all on its own without having to do anything different. However, you can still path into monsters and they can still path into you. Doing so activates combat automatically as usual. Once finished, your character immediately sets out again on the waypoint travel. At any point during the waypoint travel you can long-press on the map to stop travel and go back to manual control. Once manual control is resumed, you will be unable to go back to the waypoint travel until you reach another waypoint, step on it, and activate the dialogue choice.

This accomplishes the following:
- Eases travel without making it instant or otherwise interactionless. You must still be present to manage combats (if there are any) and make the decision to resume manual control if you think your character might get into trouble.
- Requires visiting the location manually at least once in order to obtain waypoints.
- Allows the player to stop along the way rather than going all the way to the destination.

Zukero, you'll have to let me know if this is even possible. I think some of the new features you've added should make it so (such as the dialogue options increasing as you collect more waypoints) but there are parts that I'm not sure about such as the 1.5x rate of travel and automated preset pathing.

[Zukero]

Zukero, you'll have to let me know if this is even possible. I think some of the new features you've added should make it so (such as the dialogue options increasing as you collect more waypoints) but there are parts that I'm not sure about such as the 1.5x rate of travel and automated preset pathing.

Well, *everything* is possible, except Andor making you a coffee... without a poison in it at least....

I think it requires not only a HUGE amount of code work, but also a HUGE amount of data creation, and HUGE headaches to get the ergonomy right. Moreover, I don't really like it
I'd rather have some precise teleports (like in BWM), prefereably one-way, eventually triggered by dialogue.
To balance the battle-free movement, maybe we could have mini-games (HUGE work too), or random stops or bad events :
- Using a "cab" could have 20% chance to leave you in the middle of the road (at one or more predefined points) because of the "cab" being attacked.
- Using a paid boat has a 10% chance of sending you back to the departure with 10% of your HP left, because the boat sunk, and you had to swim... with all your gear on !

Ideas... ideas... this is a fruitful thread ! Keep'em coming boys everyone !

[Axor]

Hey thanks for answering

I totally get the point on not changing the exp from monsters depending on your level, its not a big thing as far as it stays balanced as you said.

but i have a question :

what's the point on not limiting the lvl? whats the benefits on that?

[fiernaq]

Level Cap = good for newcomers because they have a chance to catch up
No Level Cap = good for older players or players with unlimited time

Also, if there were a level cap we'd probably have to trim down the number of skills to a more reasonable number or at least balance them out a lot better. As it is, we have a lot of skills right now that nobody but the highest level players would even consider putting points into and that only because they already have all of the good skills they need and don't really need any other character improvement to be able to handle everything the game has to throw at them.

[Axor]

but no lvl cap makes that when a new expansion comes its not challenging at all for the players...

i cannot imagine any content that its a challenge at lvl 100..

as i stated before there is other ways to keep players hooked... even unlimited time players

[rijackson741]

I don't see any need for a level cap. If you play the game through, completing all quests and visiting all areas, but not grinding for extraordinary or legendary items, then you will not be overpowered for the next release. If you want to grind for extraordinary or legendary items and don't want to level up, that's easy to do. Just kill 100 monsters, load a saved game, kill 100 monsters, etc. So anyone that gets to level 100 does so by choice, not because they have to, and I think they view what constitutes a challenge differently to you (or me). I don't consider killing several thousand gargoyles a challenge, even for a fancy ring. So I don't do it. If they want to do so, and level up in the process, then why prevent them?

[Duke]

Awesome post Axor. thanks for the great input and thanks to all who have looked at and thought about this post. Like some have said, this generates ideas and gets the juices flowing.

[Oet]

Let's say you're going from Remgard back to Fallhaven. While in Remgard, you walk onto the waypoint and in the dialogue you choose to go to Fallhaven. Immediately, your character sets out at 1.5x the normal rate of travel, following the road (pre-set path) to your destination. You watch as your character moves along all on its own without having to do anything different. However, you can still path into monsters and they can still path into you. Doing so activates combat automatically as usual. Once finished, your character immediately sets out again on the waypoint travel. At any point during the waypoint travel you can long-press on the map to stop travel and go back to manual control. Once manual control is resumed, you will be unable to go back to the waypoint travel until you reach another waypoint, step on it, and activate the dialogue choice.

Tbh, good idea, but it all falls at 1.5x speed and getting in to combat. That would make it take even longer to travel since you can just avoid all the monsters by travelling. I know you mentioned you weren't sure about that, just adding my opinion.

Well, *everything* is possible, except Andor making you a coffee... without a poison in it at least....

but no lvl cap makes that when a new expansion comes its not challenging at all for the players...

i cannot imagine any content that its a challenge at lvl 100..

as i stated before there is other ways to keep players hooked... even unlimited time players

You can always make a new character, choose not to level up nor use skill ups. You make your own experience. Myself I have only used one skill point


EDIT:

Maybe the should be moved to the "Ideas and future development" section?

[Pyrizzle]

For the sake of simplicity and trying to keep everything in their proper spot:
#1) Maximun level
-I don't see the logic in limiting a players growth. If a player wished to grind and grind to reach an epic level, it's only their fault if they take the challenge out of the game later on. There is always an option to start over and try a different build style.

#2) Special Habilities
-This suggestion is just more and more grinding and i don't see how it is different from allowing players to over-level (well maybe besides the idea that this could potentially have a limit to it). IMHO it sounds like a lot of programing and would overpower high level players even more than before. ((Also how would these "habilities" difer from the skills players would have already learned? Are they just small stat boots?))

#3) Low level NPCs give no XP
-Interesting suggestion, but it has one major flaw... Lets say a player levels from 1-15 in the Crossglen area (Pretty normal, yes) but then after that ventures out and never crosses the Flagstone Prison until the player is already at the point where that location gives them no XP.... At this time the player would have no incentive to go in there besides the fact that they never entered before.

#4) Armor / weapon sets
- A common idea that has been suggested often on the forums. -----> http://andorstrail.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... ets#p37440