Missing Maps around Blackwater/Prim

[Raphi]

Hey everyone,

recently I had some time again to think about new content. Alongside planning my own project, I thought about the missing maps between Blackwater and Crossglen/Stoutford. I think this area has a lot of potential, but also needs to be planned out carefully in order to create the right connection between the existing areas.

First of all: Is anything planned yet? I had a quick look through the forum and didn't find much.

If that's the case, I would be glad to move this area forward by sharing some ideas. But as well, I'd like to open this thread as a place for everyone to share their ideas and thoughts about these maps.

So far, I've had the following thoughts:

Area north of Crossglen:
This area must of course include the mountain the rat cave is located in. However, I think there should also be a good portion of forest, as there is forest on all other connecting maps.

Access to this map would be from the left, the map where the

Silver Scale Quest

is.

Content wise, I would not add a lot to this, as it is mostly just a way-map to connect to further areas. Mabye a small maze is already enough.

Area west of Crossglen:
Here, the mountain starts to rise. We have to somehow create a transition between friendly, quiet Crossglen and a rough, hostile Area full of Gornauds and Snakes. Mabye a mountain peak that cannot be reached by anything but a few birds is the way to separate these different climates.

Access to this side of the mountain could of course be from Crossglen directly, but I think it wouldn't really fit with very-early-game. So I would connect it to my previously written area above.

Being the opposite site of the harsh and monster-filled mountain, I would recommend making this a more friendly area. Some animals like llamas or chamoises would fit in perfectly in my opinion. Some vague vegetation like small bushes or simple trees would break up the gray landscape and provide a bit of shadow to the animals living there.
Right next to Crossglen would be a perfect place to create a viewpoint where you could just ponder around and have a great view over the village (at least this is what the game would tell you ) This could be worth an entry into your book of experiences (or whatever it's called).
As there is still a lot of space left in this area, I thought of a small secret map, that you don't get to explore until some point later in the game, just to keep this area interesting. Mabye it is hidden away behind some hedges and you need a special item to get through, like shears or some protection from the thorns of the hedge.

Area below Crossglen
Going a bit further down, between Snake Cave and Norry, I would propose placing a small hut or house on the mountain. This is still open for ideas, I just thought it would fit in.
This area also has to connect the bottom mountain to the snowy area above. So towards BWM, it probably has to get quite steep and unexplorable. However on the lower levels, there could be space for a small narrow path that mabye leads to a cliff/overhang where some chest with good loot is located. This would also mark the end of this way.

A random thought would be to make a one-way shortcut to slide down the mountain here leading to Flagstone's area, but I'm not sure if this would fit.


So far, this is what I got in mind. I know there are many more maps to fill between BWM and Stoutfort, all the way over to the mine entrance. I have some rough, unstructured ideas for this as well, but not enough to share them. Mabye you got ideas for this?

Now I would love to hear what you think of this and also what are your ideas on this area!

- Raphi

PS: As soon as I get home from holidays I will attach some sketches I made to visualize my ideas.

[Nut]

Hi Raphi, sounds cool.
Feel free to use the area - as long as you don't create short cuts I don't know of anyone working in that area at the moment.

Some of my thoughts:
The one way down sliding could be ok, but it should only available when the quests in the area are completed. And I expect some damage condition

There is already a viewing point over Crossglen that came with the ratdom release. Maybe the eastern mountain area could be entered from there to the south?
Or Vacors hideout gets a trapdoor to the cliffs above?

I don't think there is enough space for a high mountain top as barrier. Maybe better a fissure?
Or a forgotten ancient impassable wall from the grey past?

Beware: It is very important to get the levels right. This is much work and even more to fix level errors. Best start counting from the silver scale starting point. Share your first sketches with us, so we could note early if it's wrong.

Maybe you work on github, that way you'll have a version control and backup system and it would be easy for us to give support if needed.

[Raphi]

Thank you for your reply!
When it comes to shortcuts, I'm definetely on your side. The idea of making a one-way shortcut rely on finishing quests is great! And I have also thought of a damage condition, similar to when you get kicked off of Guynmart Castle mabye.

The viewing point I somehow completely missed. I've only came across it while playing beta and thought it wasn't part of the worldmap. Now my question is: Can this map be accessed after completing the Ratdom quest? I thought all of this is supposed to be a dream and doesn't exist in "real life". And if I were to integrade this viewing point into my maps, how should I do it - leave the rat there or remove it when you are accessing this map from somewhere else thats not the cave?

I don't really want to use Vacors hideout as an access point for the mountain, as it would require you to get to Remgard in the first place (for the map, am I right there?). In my opinion this area should be accessible for low level players (I recon Prim as low level), as it is that close to Crossglen and it's just some filler maps without a huge load of content. Mabye the small secret map I wrote about could be entered from the hideout actually.

Yeah, space is very limited so I'll think about the mountain top. Not sure about it myself, I have to do some Tiled drawing to see how well I can make this. A ravine could work as well. A wall is probably harder to accomplish, as it would have to be drawn from top to bottom. But I'll think about it.

Yes, I'm aware of the level problem and will try my best to pay close attention to it. When I get started, I will share so everybody can check.

As soon as I got something going in Tiled/ATCS I will share it on Github. Don't have a lot of experience there so might need some help.

- Raphi

[Nut]

"Now my question is: Can this map be accessed after completing the Ratdom quest? I thought all of this is supposed to be a dream and doesn't exist in "real life". And if I were to integrade this viewing point into my maps, how should I do it - leave the rat there or remove it when you are accessing this map from somewhere else thats not the cave?"

Was it a dream? The game never stated that for sure
In any case the cave is still open and can be visited. (I don't know who brought up the rumour that the cave can't be visited after the quest, but think it funny that nobody tried themselves )
Clevred is gone from the map already, and you won't find him in the caves no more.

So you can use this viewing point as entrance to some other parts near Crossglen - it's just not low level. It would be best to have the new maps not all connected from one entry, but several distinct areas. Some can be low level, and some high level that way

[Raphi]

So I had a look at the current Blackwater Mountain and encountered a few issues with the levels. I made a very simple drawing to find out all heights on the existing maps thats lookin like this (unfinished):
Height levels go: Red, dark Orange, bright Orange, Yellow, Lime, Green, Cyan, Blue. Probably I got a lot messed up

bwmlayers.png

One weird spot is this (blackwater_mountain15):
The green and yellow area are supposed to be one level, as the two tile high blue walls both connect to the purple area above. However, there is an edge (question mark).

levelproblems1.png

Another one here (bwm 14 / 40 / 55 / 56):
Again as the blue walls tell, the green, yellow and purple level somehow are weirdly connected.

levelproblems2.png

This one has multiple (bwm 15 / 16 / 53 / 70):
Here, you can see the blue line is all one level, yet there is an edge at the left. In the other two red circles, there are edges that simply end, which is really confusing to me.

levelproblems3.png

Thanks Nut for your reply, I will definetely try to implement this viewing point as best as I can.

[Raphi]

Somehow I can't attach the fourth image, so here it is:

levelproblems3.png

[Nut]

Beware - these BWM levels could cause heavy brain damage

The colors are a good idea.
One of the problems I can explain directly, see drawing

[Raphi]

Ah yes, I see, makes sense now.

So... I might have gone a bit overboard now and started to exactly map out the heights of the mountain using colours:

Not finished yet!!!

bwmlayers_prog1.png

It can be a little hard to differenciate between all colours, so here I turned the opacity to 100%:

Also not finished yet:

bwmlayers_prog2.png

At the top you can see how I came across the issue with this one again:

This one has multiple (bwm 15 / 16 / 53 / 70):
Here, you can see the blue line is all one level, yet there is an edge at the left. In the other two red circles, there are edges that simply end, which is really confusing to me.

What I think about the snowy area is: So far it is only connected to the top, which means it is unclear what height there is. On the bottom of the snowy maps, there is a small stripe of gray mountain, so I would define this as a similar height as the first gray layer north of the snowy mountain. In the case of my colouring, this would be height 12 (pink).

[Nut]

I once had counted the levels too, but don't know every detail any more.
I just remember that from the mermaid quest up it was +6 levels, and to the snowy part where Norries owner stands another lever (+7)


and that the roof of the cave exit from ratdom has the same height as Norries owner (that's why I had put snow on the cave roof)

bwm_heights.PNG

[rijackson741]

I haven't counted the levels on BWM. I know Ian did a big fix for BWM though, because the levels were not right many years ago. I hope there are no mistakes. If you go around in a big circle level mistakes can catch you. I only know of one, between Brimhaven and the Green Maze. But there is no direct connection, and the way around from one to the other is so long nobody (other than me, but I had reasons to look for it) will notice.