Tomcat wrote:Adding an optional ”Conditional” layer only for maps that need it might be relatively simple. This layer would contain just the tiles that change, to be displayed over the existing Object and/or Ground layer when a condition is met. Set an event in the Key layer over the changing tile(s) whose attributes define the condition.
Good idea, Tomcat! We've been wanting to do this for a long time. In order to make it easy for map creators, I think it's crucial that using conditionals on maps is easy and that it's obvious how it works.
There are two things I think we need to define before we can start adding something like a new tile layer:
Do we always want to add tiles to the new layer, or would we also need to remove tiles from "objects" layer?
Should it only affect the "objects" layer, or also the "above" layer?
Adding just another layer is easy, but I'm thinking that might not always be sufficient. For example, check out blackwater_mountain5.tmx , where we'd want to clear that rubble after some quest thing has happened. That particular map also has some stuff in the "above" layer, which is just a trick to make it look like there's more rubble there than what we can place in the "objects" layer. We'd have to have some strategy on how to handle both removing those things from the "objects" and "above" -layers, and how to handle adding new tiles to each layer.
Anyone up for doing an example of a TMX file for blackwater_mountain5.tmx with some new layer or some other representation of "objects"&"above" where the rubble can be conditionally removed?
The Key layer could have an event whose properties define the condition to be met, the layer containing the tile that must be replaced, and the layer containing the replacement. If multiple layers need to be changed, then you could use additional key properties and multiple additional layers. In principle you could have Object and Object2, Above and Above2, Ground and Ground2, and even Walkable and Walkable2, which opens up even more possibilities! Wakling on water, flying, secret passages.... You could even have more than one alternate, so that a tile could have many versions.
Tomcat wrote:
The Key layer could have an event whose properties define the condition to be met, the layer containing the tile that must be replaced, and the layer containing the replacement. If multiple layers need to be changed, then you could use additional key properties and multiple additional layers. In principle you could have Object and Object2, Above and Above2, Ground and Ground2, and even Walkable and Walkable2, which opens up even more possibilities! Wakling on water, flying, secret passages.... You could even have more than one alternate, so that a tile could have many versions.
I can take a stab at that map as an example
OMG That would make me so Happy I Always thought my character was so awesome he could walk on water! Now it could be a possibility
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Tomcat wrote:Adding an optional ”Conditional” layer only for maps that need it might be relatively simple. This layer would contain just the tiles that change, to be displayed over the existing Object and/or Ground layer when a condition is met. Set an event in the Key layer over the changing tile(s) whose attributes define the condition.
Good idea, Tomcat! We've been wanting to do this for a long time. In order to make it easy for map creators, I think it's crucial that using conditionals on maps is easy and that it's obvious how it works.
There are two things I think we need to define before we can start adding something like a new tile layer:
Do we always want to add tiles to the new layer, or would we also need to remove tiles from "objects" layer?
Should it only affect the "objects" layer, or also the "above" layer?
Adding just another layer is easy, but I'm thinking that might not always be sufficient. For example, check out blackwater_mountain5.tmx , where we'd want to clear that rubble after some quest thing has happened. That particular map also has some stuff in the "above" layer, which is just a trick to make it look like there's more rubble there than what we can place in the "objects" layer. We'd have to have some strategy on how to handle both removing those things from the "objects" and "above" -layers, and how to handle adding new tiles to each layer.
Anyone up for doing an example of a TMX file for blackwater_mountain5.tmx with some new layer or some other representation of "objects"&"above" where the rubble can be conditionally removed?
The Key layer could have an event whose properties define the condition to be met, the layer containing the tile that must be replaced, and the layer containing the replacement. If multiple layers need to be changed, then you could use additional key properties and multiple additional layers. In principle you could have Object and Object2, Above and Above2, Ground and Ground2, and even Walkable and Walkable2, which opens up even more possibilities! Wakling on water, flying, secret passages.... You could even have more than one alternate, so that a tile could have many versions.
I can take a stab at that map as an example
Flying.... I can just imagine that witch from remgard getting into some more trouble with a broomstick
Take a stop by my game thread for some forum fun!!!
I'm picturing flying only working outdoors, so that instead of conditionally altering the Walkable layer, you'd just ignore it, and then draw the character on top of the Above layer. If you allowed this underground or indoors, you could fly through walls and solid rock.
Flying or walking on water from one map the the next would be more difficult, however. You'd need conditional map changes retrofitted throughout.
If there were to be something that allowed you to walk on water, many maps (ie: demon cave) would need to be changed. Also Tomcat, think about the areas around the road to Remgard and Leona Lake, a lot of the maps don't line up evenelly enough for you to tansfer maps while on water. But it would be cool if specific sections of water would allow you to transfer maps. Like Pyro stated, that would be an aweseome way to put high level areas near low level areas without the possibilty of a weak adventurer wandering into a death trap.
Take a stop by my game thread for some forum fun!!!
PK17 wrote:If there were to be something that allowed you to walk on water, many maps (ie: demon cave) would need to be changed. Also Tomcat, think about the areas around the road to Remgard and Leona Lake, a lot of the maps don't line up evenelly enough for you to tansfer maps while on water. But it would be cool if specific sections of water would allow you to transfer maps. Like Pyro stated, that would be an aweseome way to put high level areas near low level areas without the possibilty of a weak adventurer wandering into a death trap.
The whole point of walking on water would be to get shortcuts in places like that. And I've been working in fixing the alignment around Lake Laeroth and other places. if you need to maintain control, you make water walking hard to get and temporary.
Flying would be a little excessive, truth be told, but it could be limited in similar ways.
At any rate, the real thrust of this whole idea is more about secret doors and such. These other wild things are a bit more pie in the sky.
They could be useful for making riddles in the game where players have to figure out that the bridge across the big chasm may be invisible or that there is secretly a pathway hidden just below the surface of a river that you may safely cross at.
Very cool ideas, i would love to see something like this added to the game (If possible)
I Always thought my character was so awesome he could walk on water! 
Now it could be a possibility 
