Balancing barehanded fighting

[Sarumar]

I recently had to re-do due to loss of data on my SD Card. This go around I went barehanded ( dont like the -20 BC on quickstrike dagger) and lots of +1 damage/hit hard. I have a nice array of weapons in my inventory, but with the AP cost of using them and the small amount of damage it adds.. it isn't worth the loss of the number of attacks to use a weapon.

I am not sure what will come of the new code in 6.12, but at the moment I see the problem as an AP vers amount of damage added from using weapons mostly. Why give up all the extra attacks, and the damage from them, vers using a weapon.

One way to fix it might be to give a multiple of damage instead of the the damage range on a weapon. Like a dagger would do (damage*.5+damage) a cheap sword (damage*.6+damage), etc. Currently adding even 4-7 damage to 3 attacks (max of 21 damage), but giving up an extra (or two) barehanded damage attacks that are much higher isn't good DPS planning

+1 Intrestig suggestion here

[LordLancelot]

Do not reduce the power of dagger or bare hand, increase the usefulness of the other weapons instead.

That way ppl can still play their character they put so many hours-weeks... in it.

I for one don't like to start over, and force me to start over, will force me out of the game, I sure I am not alone.

If you do major change in skills, please allow a one time change your skills per character, we don't want to be forced to start over.

[sdevaney]

Do not reduce the power of dagger or bare hand, increase the usefulness of the other weapons instead.

That way ppl can still play their character they put so many hours-weeks... in it.

I for one don't like to start over, and force me to start over, will force me out of the game, I sure I am not alone.

If you do major change in skills, please allow a one time change your skills per character, we don't want to be forced to start over.

We haven't decided exactly what we are going to do with unarmed combat just yet.

While we have not implemented any changes that have required a complete restart of a character don't assume that there wont be an update in the future that requires it, this is not a finished product and we can not foresee every possible issue that may arise.

As far as starting over in general is concerned, it is very much a part of the game you can not do everything in the game as a single character.

[Wyrmspawn]

I think that two handed combat will become superior to unarmed soon anyway. Especially since two handed weapons will deal twice as much damage soon.

[Wyrmspawn]

Welcome to the forums!

[Wyrmspawn]

I just read a LOT of Chinese Kung Fu novels, and it suddenly occured to me that, since weapons are going to have different skill categories, maybe we should give more skills to unarmed. Maybe I'm not making myself quite clear at the moment. Well, in Chinese Kung Fu, there are many forms of fighting, involving different uses of hands. For example, there was some style of kung fu in which your hands imitate a clawlike gesture of the eagle, and you gouge at the enemy's face, or if you're good enough at Kung Fu, even puncture their skull with your fingers. There are also a few that involves fists, and one that I read of involving using only one or two fingers like a stabbing weapon. A master can use one finger to punch right through a wooden plank. Also, very interestingly, in one lengen, a Shaolin monk can supposedly create images of his palms all around him, just by moving them on a pre-trained path very, very quickly, until there's virtually no way of getting through his defense. This technique seems to be called the thousand-handed-buddha's palms.

So, anyway, even if you are unarmed, there are many different ways that you can fight... get my drift? I propose that there be skills that you can choose to increase your unarmed stats, for example,
Hardened knuckles:
For every level, adds two AD for unarmed only.

Palm Chop: For every level, add one AD and ten AC for unarmed only.

Sharpened Claws (no name cool enough comes to mid... yet. don't worry, I'm on it!)
Adds 5 Critical Hit Skill for unarmed for every level, first level adds 1 Critical Hit multiplier.

Shadowpalm:
For every level, add ten AC and ten BC to unarmed.


More to come, still editing. What do you guys think?

[nyktos]

i had just posted about something similar in another topic,
just before i read this one...

i was interested in seeing a skill that would allow unarmed heroes to land critical hits...
something like bracers or wrappings for your wrists.

i also shared that i didn't think we should be allowed to use knuckles / dusters, etc.
because they are weapons.

although, some of us in the background are toying with the idea of "exotic weapons"
but i really like your point about bringing in martial arts skills for unarmed fighters.

we were talking about having trainers teaching you weapon proficiency & specialization,
so... why not a dojo with a sensei?



* leg sweep - (humanoid) enemy loses next turn
* pressure points - unarmed critical hits
* ??? - still brainstorming too...



good stuff here!

[P3RVY SAG3]

yes these are great ideas plus if you train long enough with the trainers you could possibly unlock mastery
which would open doors to master other skills as unarmed plus exotic weapons mastery
just in case they ever bring in disarming for the enemy.

[Krimson Rose]

If disarming enemies came into play, I would be worried about it backfiring: enemies disarming me! Similar to some game nights I have had, once the players start sundering NPC's weapons, their own weapons are now up for grabs.

As far as the unarmed skills, I love the idea of a monk style character, but with the number of skills you came up with I would think unarmed would be a little unbalanced (more powerful) than using weapons. Maybe a way to address this is having some skills locked out if a separate one is chosen. For example I choose Palm Chop, and now can no longer put anything in Hardened Knuckles. Now not only would story have consequences for choices, but skills would as well.

I also think an unarmored skill should come up. But, like I said, I like monk style characters.

KR

[sorrow]

[bWe can also use these fighting styles:
the crain
The snake
The bear
And my favorite THE DRAGON