Venomous dagger V Flagstone's Pride

[Cervando]

Actually which is best is very subjective. For instance, currently I am farming for the EiyR. Until my current level, 39, the most efficient way to kill them was using the Venomous dagger, as if I hit twice and one critted, I would kill them in one round. However, now, I can do enough damage that with 3 hits out of 5 using the quickstrike dagger, I can guarantee a kill. After experimenting this is the best way to kill them. The steel sword would not have been better in either situation as I would need to hit 3 times to kill them out of 3. It would only be better if I could do a guaranteed 39 damage per hit, so that allowing for the damage reduction I could be sure of killing them with two hits.

[tallon]

Has any one else seen all of the "one time kill" characters return? Characters such as the winged demon in Flagstone prison, Vancor or the "bosses" in the snake cave or the gargoyle trainer cave? I was especially excited about this because I was able to get the Venomous Dagger after I sold it ages ago.

[Antison]

Has any one else seen all of the "one time kill" characters return? Characters such as the winged demon in Flagstone prison, Vancor or the "bosses" in the snake cave or the gargoyle trainer cave? I was especially excited about this because I was able to get the Venomous Dagger after I sold it ages ago.

Are you saying that you've seen the bosses respawn? They aren't supposed to.

[Rory Mac]

Has any one else seen all of the "one time kill" characters return? Characters such as the winged demon in Flagstone prison, Vancor or the "bosses" in the snake cave or the gargoyle trainer cave? I was especially excited about this because I was able to get the Venomous Dagger after I sold it ages ago.

Bout a week ago, just for S&G I went all the way to the back of the snake cave and nothing - no boss. Course I never sold my VD, so that could be the difference. What level are you?

(checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1)

[Pyrizzle]

I just made the switch to my Shadow Of The Slayer because...
My AD is 41-45 so even with the Gargoyle T&A's 5 DR I still do a minimum 36 damage upon hitting (the Gargoyle T&A only have 35 HP)

I don't care about the AP at all anymore since i can kill them in one hit, i just love the HP it has been restoring. I havent used a potion in over a week and my health hasnt dipped below 25 of 60.

[tallon]

Are you saying that you've seen the bosses re-spawn? They aren't supposed to.

It was really weird, I was grinding in the gargoyle cave and went into the top room where the boss of the cave was the first time and the boss wasn't there, I went back after a while and he was all of the sudden there again. I thought that was odd, so I killed him and got all of his stuff again. So I decided to take a look for some of the other bosses and they were all there, I now have two Flagstone's Pride, I killed Prim's king again so I have another barbed dagger, a second Shadow of the slayer, everything. It hasn't happened again since, so it isn't like they re-spawned.

Bout a week ago, just for S&G I went all the way to the back of the snake cave and nothing - no boss. Course I never sold my VD, so that could be the difference. What level are you?

I am level 32 right now, but it happened a few levels ago. I wonder if it was just some crazy glitch...

It was really weird, I still use the Flagstone's Pride, but I am glad I have the Venomous dagger now.

[Rory Mac]

Lucky you!!!

[Pyrizzle]

Lucky you!!!

I double checked the Snake Cave to see if he had returned on my game... No dice.

[nezkeys79]

I never sell anything that's unique on an rpg regardless of its value.

Secondly when I got that item I too was using the steel sword. When I looked at its stats I saw a weaker atk damage but saw 60% crit. My conclusion was get that dagger equipped right away. I still couldn't afford the jewel of fallhaven but i had already figured out what it would do before coming here.

Some would argue that consistent hits are better than hoping for a crit but I disagree. 1 crit can ohko some monsters. Anyway what I'm trying to say is I actually thought it looked superior not inferior lol

[marinebrit]

Hi again all,

It took me a while to figure out how to compare weapons across AP's. I still have not been able to find a satisfactory way to include criticals into the mix on top of this. I also note that going barefist you get no bonus from the Jewel of Fallhaven, so you can probably bump up it's usage by adding some other neckwear. Finally, I have no way to take into account the reduced defence that the quickstrike dagger gives you.

Anyway, here are the results. Judge for yourself:


col1 col2 col3 col4 col5 col6 col7 col8 col9 col10 col11 col12 col13 col14 col15 col16 col17 col18 col19 col20 col21 col22 col23
Base Attack: 10 ROUNDS to kill monster with xx HP
Weapon 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
Min Max Hit AP Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min
Barefist 10 10 0 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 10 10
Quickstrike 10 10 20 2 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5
Steel Sword 13 17 24 3 2 2 3 2 4 3 4 3 4 4 5 4 6 4 6 5 7 5
Flagstone's Pride 11 32 21 3 2 1 3 1 4 2 5 2 5 2 6 3 7 3 8 3 9 4
Venomous Dagger 11 36 20 3 2 1 3 1 4 2 5 2 5 2 6 2 7 3 8 3 9 3



col1 col2 col3 col4 col5 col6 col7 col8 col9 col10 col11 col12 col13 col14 col15 col16 col17 col18 col19 col20 col21 col22 col23
Base Attack: 10 ROUNDS to kill monster with xx HP
Inc Weapon Dam Reduct=4 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
Min Max Hit AP Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min Max Min
Barefist 6 6 0 2 4 4 5 5 7 7 9 9 10 10 12 12 14 14 15 15 17 17
Quickstrike 6 6 20 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9
Steel Sword 9 13 24 3 3 2 4 3 4 4 5 4 6 4 7 5 7 6 8 6 10 7
Flagstone's Pride 7 28 21 3 3 1 5 2 5 2 7 2 8 3 9 3 10 3 11 4 13 4
Venomous Dagger 7 32 20 3 3 1 5 1 5 2 7 2 8 2 9 3 10 3 11 3 13 4


My take: the quickstrike dagger does allow you to take down monsters quicker, but as soon as the monsters build up some serious HP's and get a damage resistance, the advantages of more hits becomes balanced off by the ability to do more consistent damage. Furthermore, the 20% block reduction is equal to nearly 7 levels of investment, so I do not think this is not a good option as those higher level monsters are much more likely to do you more damage (1 hit in 5 more likely). IMPORTANTLY: This will reduce your attack rate if you are forever dosing up on healing products.

Going barefist is just silly, because you are less likely to hit AND you do less damage. Even if you can compensate to some extent by using alternative neckwear, I just don't think it can make up for things. If you like barefist for dispensing low-level monsters before they can hit you, just go for the quickstrike dagger.

On a round-by-round basis, the items with critical hits may start to make a bit more sense. Although the minimum number of rounds to kill a monster above assumes a critical hit every turn, probability does say that you'll get one every other round (assuming Jewel and 3 hits per turn) with the venemous dagger. This is a nice touch for damage reducing monsters, but it does mean that the damage you hand out for the other 4 hits will be lower than the steel sword. The pride of flagstone still loses out to both, really.

A manual calculation: 8 hits and 2 criticals (10 hits total) are needed to take down the 100 HP monster with 4 dmg reduction on the venemous dagger. Alternatively, 2 criticals THEN 6 more hits will be needed for the same monster. SO you need 8-10 hits on average, putting you pretty much where the steel sword is (see earlier tables) at 8-12 hits - BOTH are a minimum of 3 to 4 rounds of combat! The difference is smaller still when you consider that the sword is more likely to hit each attack (1 in 25 additional hits). There is only a difference if you luck is really good (more crits, venomous dagger better) or really bad (fewer crits, steel sword better).

No dmg reduction? Venomous needs 6 hits + 1 crit OR 2 crits THEN 3 hits for 100 points. This is 5 to 7 hits compared to the steel sword at 6 to 8 AGAIN a match at 2 to 3 combat rounds minimum.

And neither consider wasted crits (e.g., a hit of 30 when only 8 is needed on the last blow).

Fatigue and other effects also stack against the consistent lower damage of the venemous dagger when you start to consider the number of monster attacks back as well. (And even MORE against the quickstrike dagger).

And don't forget, every time you use potions or meat in combat, you also loose attacks, while the monster gains them...


In short, it's a matter of considering your opponent and your level of risk tolerance. Lower level monsters and a higher willingness to be hit back and the quickstrike is clearly the best. Damage reductions and more monster attacks and the venemous dagger and steel sword start to become much more appealing. However, thanks to wasted crits and a better base damage the steel sword still beats out the venemous dagger, in my opinion. Yes, you can crit a monster and kill it in 2 rounds, but if the next takes 5 rounds, was it really worth it, instead of 3 for both?

Signing off...