Focus on the fun - advice to the dev team

[randy]

(Sorry in advance for the long post, but I've got plenty of time to type while I wait for monsters to respawn.)

I'm grinding for the RoLS, and I'm not having any fun. If it wasn't for this forum I would have uninstalled the game long ago. As it is, I think I'm about to ignore it until the next release. If the next release doesn't add more fun than the last one, then that's probably my last release. The last release was fun, but too small; especially since I had been grinding some and was strong enough to walk through the whole Prim/BWM area without even going back to restock.

In my day job I'm the Product Owner for an educational software package and a hack coder. So I know a little more than the average gamer about product design, market testing, and finding a revenue stream to support an application.

I'm assuming that Andor's Trail will be seeking a revenue stream someday. As I see it there are three real possibilities:
1. Start charging for the game (with a 30-day trial version)
2. Sell items in-game, like Farmville (if Android ever gets the in-app purchasing feature released)
3. Display ads in the game and/or on the forum

All three business models will require a more robust forum. The forum is a feature of the game, and it needs to be developed as such. Later, maybe the forum won't matter as much. But at this stage of development, where the game is still out of balance and hard to get started, and while the game is still changing dramatically, the forum is key to keeping people engaged. Maybe you could have random characters say "Have you checked out the forums for hints and tricks?"

What I have really enjoyed about this game are exploration and discovery. I want more of that. More maps. More variety of monsters and weapons. More quests, even meaningless side-quests. And the competing quests between Prim and BWM were fantastic--big kudos for that. More hidden areas. And don't be afraid to make some side quests really hard--I wouldn't mind grinding as much if I had a specific goal in mind.

On top of the hard quests and competing quests, don't be afraid to include no-return decisions. I loved the fact that once I chose either Prim or BWM the other door was closed to me. That's a form of scarcity. People want things that are scarce. Months from now people will be begging for some new quest that will get them into the good graces of the other city. Don't give in to that temptation.

Offense and defense need to be balanced. Critical hits happen too often. The prizes for completing quests and/or defeating big monsters should be better than the prizes for grinding. But, in my opinion, none of these housekeeping tasks are nearly as important as simply adding more maps and quests.

Towards that end, I would highly advise that you start a side project to let users build and submit maps and quests. You will have to have a review and refine process. But even having users build out maps of jungle paths filled with random creatures would be helpful. User-submitted artwork would also be helpful.

Another idea to consider is progressive paths. That is, re-use existing maps as parts of new quests. For instance, add a shovel tool that you can use to dig in some places. Or a sledge-hammer that you can use to destroy some walls. And then go back in to the wolf cave, the snake cave, and the gargoyle cave and add walls and floors that you can interact with. Those areas don't change for the new people, because their characters don't get the new tools (or skills) until later levels. But this gives you a reason to work back through a part of the map that you have already done--to find new treasures and accomplish new quests.

There are many tools or skills that you could introduce at higher levels that would add this type of replay-ability: jumping, climbing, digging, destroying walls, pick-pocketing, exorcising (like for the haunted prison), opening closed doors, activating buttons, etc. You might consider adding a new tool or skill with each of the next several releases--as an alternative to grinding.

Similarly, you could also add night-time, where the entire map changes character because the night-time monsters are tougher.

Or you could add quests that change the character of a dungeon. For instance, if you talk to someone in Fallhaven after you are level 30 then they offer a new quest that will clean out the snakes from the snake cave forever (an exorcism.) They give you a ceremonial knife that you have to use to kill all the snake people with. That knife is very weak and has terrible negative modifiers--making the quest really difficult. And when you kill a snake guy with it he doesn't respawn. After you complete that quest some newer and tougher monster takes over the snake cave--so it becomes the mini-dragon cave, or whatever. And you can have a new quest there sometime.

Another feature that would extend playability is adding a variable to the commerce. Every X times you sleep the economy of the realm changes. When that happens each vendor will charge and pay a little more or less for each item. The vendors in one city need to be relatively consistent. But if they are paying 30 for meat in Prim and selling it for 28 in Fallhaven, then a player can choose to earn some money that way. It also makes it harder to reduce the winning strategy to merely a formula.

Along with that, you might consider reducing the amount of cash that monsters drop. I've never understood why monsters carry so much cash, anyway--but they do it in almost every game. That would make the tactic of buying and selling more important to game play.

One more sneaky feature to keep people engaged--scale new content according to the level of the player. So when you upgrade the next release, check all of the save games on the phone and find the one with the highest level. Then adjust the difficulty of the quests based upon how high they are levelled up. It could be as simple as increasing the strength and hp of all of the new monsters by a simple multiplier. This will reduce the advantages grinding between releases. But it will make the new releases much more challenging and fun for the long-term players.

Ok, that's all my thoughts for now. Thank you for the fun free game. I hope some of my suggestions have been helpful.

[kabbie1882]

What I have really enjoyed about this game are exploration and discovery. I want more of that. More maps. More variety of monsters and weapons. More quests, even meaningless side-quests. And the competing quests between Prim and BWM were fantastic--big kudos for that. More hidden areas. And don't be afraid to make some side quests really hard--I wouldn't mind grinding as much if I had a specific goal in mind.

I agree with you that the Prim/BWM quest was fun. It is even more fun the next 2 times I did it. Going to try a 3rd this week. I feel that any "quest" can be useful. I am even working on a "map" for a quest myself. It will be, if I figure out how to do all I need to do, a giant maze that may take quite a while to go through. It will be kind of quest all on it's own.

On top of the hard quests and competing quests, don't be afraid to include no-return decisions. I loved the fact that once I chose either Prim or BWM the other door was closed to me. That's a form of scarcity. People want things that are scarce. Months from now people will be begging for some new quest that will get them into the good graces of the other city. Don't give in to that temptation.

I like the idea of never being able to change sides once you pick one. I think that's the way it should always be. Really, if you kill a king, do you think his followers will let you come back to their town safely ?????

Offense and defense need to be balanced. Critical hits happen too often. The prizes for completing quests and/or defeating big monsters should be better than the prizes for grinding. But, in my opinion, none of these housekeeping tasks are nearly as important as simply adding more maps and quests.

Good point but others would argue that balancing the entire system is equally if not more important than new content. As much as I want new content, I would really like to have the system equalized.

Towards that end, I would highly advise that you start a side project to let users build and submit maps and quests. You will have to have a review and refine process. But even having users build out maps of jungle paths filled with random creatures would be helpful. User-submitted artwork would also be helpful.

This has already been done, http://code.google.com/p/andors-trail/wiki/HowtoHelp.

Another idea to consider is progressive paths. That is, re-use existing maps as parts of new quests. For instance, add a shovel tool that you can use to dig in some places. Or a sledge-hammer that you can use to destroy some walls. And then go back in to the wolf cave, the snake cave, and the gargoyle cave and add walls and floors that you can interact with. Those areas don't change for the new people, because their characters don't get the new tools (or skills) until later levels. But this gives you a reason to work back through a part of the map that you have already done--to find new treasures and accomplish new quests.

There are many tools or skills that you could introduce at higher levels that would add this type of replay-ability: jumping, climbing, digging, destroying walls, pick-pocketing, exorcising (like for the haunted prison), opening closed doors, activating buttons, etc. You might consider adding a new tool or skill with each of the next several releases--as an alternative to grinding.

I think this would add to much complexity to the the programing and even the game.

Another feature that would extend playability is adding a variable to the commerce. Every X times you sleep the economy of the realm changes. When that happens each vendor will charge and pay a little more or less for each item. The vendors in one city need to be relatively consistent. But if they are paying 30 for meat in Prim and selling it for 28 in Fallhaven, then a player can choose to earn some money that way. It also makes it harder to reduce the winning strategy to merely a formula.

This is an interesting idea.

Along with that, you might consider reducing the amount of cash that monsters drop. I've never understood why monsters carry so much cash, anyway--but they do it in almost every game. That would make the tactic of buying and selling more important to game play.

One more sneaky feature to keep people engaged--scale new content according to the level of the player. So when you upgrade the next release, check all of the save games on the phone and find the one with the highest level. Then adjust the difficulty of the quests based upon how high they are levelled up. It could be as simple as increasing the strength and hp of all of the new monsters by a simple multiplier. This will reduce the advantages grinding between releases. But it will make the new releases much more challenging and fun for the long-term players.

Not sure about this idea.

You have some good ideas here. I personally would like to see a few of the happen.

[Mino]

Another feature that would extend playability is adding a variable to the commerce. Every X times you sleep the economy of the realm changes. When that happens each vendor will charge and pay a little more or less for each item. The vendors in one city need to be relatively consistent. But if they are paying 30 for meat in Prim and selling it for 28 in Fallhaven, then a player can choose to earn some money that way. It also makes it harder to reduce the winning strategy to merely a formula.

Along with that, you might consider reducing the amount of cash that monsters drop. I've never understood why monsters carry so much cash, anyway--but they do it in almost every game. That would make the tactic of buying and selling more important to game play.

I don't know about it changing every X times you rest, but I do think there should be a difference in price between the the towns on either side of the mines (Prim & BWM vs Fallhaven, Crossgen, and Vilegard). For example: minor poison, speed potion, wyrm claw, potion of blind rage, blackwater brew could be considered rare and more valuable in Fallhaven, Crossgen and Vilegard. They could even be considered more valuable in Prim or BWM if not available in both towns. But the fatigue cure would be worthless in those original towns because there's no one suffering from fatigue there.

And items like cooked meat or strawberries could be considered worth more in Prim and BWM because they don't seem to have them.

One more sneaky feature to keep people engaged--scale new content according to the level of the player. So when you upgrade the next release, check all of the save games on the phone and find the one with the highest level. Then adjust the difficulty of the quests based upon how high they are levelled up. It could be as simple as increasing the strength and hp of all of the new monsters by a simple multiplier. This will reduce the advantages grinding between releases. But it will make the new releases much more challenging and fun for the long-term players.

This I have to disagree with. Leveling up takes longer the higher up you get, so having the monsters level up with us would make it seem like a wasted effort. Instead, the new Blackwater Mountain/Prim side has stronger monsters and character conditions, so I think that provides an extra challenge already. The whole point of grinding is to have an advantage over a certain quest or creature with some improved stats. I think what makes the quests fun and challenging are 1) having to figure out who to talk to, 2)finding whatever is requested and 3)figuring out answers based on clues given.

For all 3:

Each time there is an update, you need to go talk to everyone again to make sure something hasn't changed, which is part of the fun/challenge. And examples of puzzles/finding thing is the kazul quest where you have to figure out how to get into the secret chamber (not super difficult but it did seem to slow down a few players) and then find all the ritual papers (also slowed down some players).

This topic might actually be better off in the "ideas and future development" section though.