Old Friends, you can't tell Kaverin you know Unzel if you haven't killed Vacor

[gbro]

I believe this is well known, if in Missing Pieces you side with Unzel but then go to Remgard before killing Vacor, the only way you're allowed to reply to Kaverin when he asks if you know Unzel is "No, I've never met him".
Well except that that's completely false!!!

I know that several players ran into this problem, and maybe took it with philosophy, but it was clearly an unintended mistake in the writing of the quest, and it should at least be changed in a way that the dialogue makes sense.
Especially since it causes a further trip to Remgard, when maybe the player reached it with extreme difficulty at his current level. The long path to Remgard and having to go to bwm and back etc. is all fine and an interesting aspect of the game, but having to make one more trip only because of a bug could be very irritating.

So again, at the very least the dialog with Kaverin should be changed to make sense, but I actually don't see a way it could make sense other than allowing to tell Kaverin that you know Unzel and make him give you the message.

I did run in the situation but I already left Remgard and did a lot since, so it's not a personal request .

And I don't think that anyone who experienced this will complain if other players will be spared from it in a future version of the game.

It might actually be a fairly common situation, since killing someone is rather drastic and a lot of people will have chosen to wait and do other stuff before going back to that quest (and it doesn't seem to be a behavior to punish).



Actually though, is it really appropriate to require having met Unzel to get the message from Kaverin?
Most people who reach Remgard *will* have already met him, but not because they are smarter than those who haven't, they simply happened to have made one more thing in that part of the map before moving east OR they learned how things stand because they check the forums before doing anything important, which in theory should not be a part of the game or something that the game rewards (although de facto it is, I know).

Having Kaverin give you the message even if you don't know Unzel might seem a little less credible but not so much:

• Fallhaven is very far from Remgard, so it makes sense for Kaverin to exploit the fact of meeting someone from there for delivering something, so much that it might be appropriate to run the risk of the person keeping the thing for themselves.
• Currently Kaverin asks you no proof that you do know (*and are a friend of*) Unzel, he asks you "Do you know Unzel"? Anyone could answer just yes and he wouldn't know better.
  And he has no idea if you're trustworthy or a bandit.
  Furthermore, it's actually common in RPGs' quests for someone to ask you to deliver something important to someone you don't know.

To me it seems just unfair to submit *some* of the players to an additional Remgard trip for accidental circumstances (although at higher levels it might be less of a huge deal).

And again, I don't think that anyone (or at least many) of those who run in the situation will complain if this part of the quest is changed.



Anyway, this second more drastic proposal is probably more controversial (and would take more work), so it would probably make sense to first fix the first problem and then mull over the second part

Thanks for listening

[rijackson741]

That's a very old quest, so we are not inclined to change it.

[gbro]

That's a very old quest, so we are not inclined to change it.

Well ok, but the new players still run into the problem, so maybe at least the dialogue should be fixed to make sense. ?

I know that the project has only limited and voluntary resources though (who seem to have managed to do wonders in the last years )

[Nut]

I can see your point, and of course we generally fix bugs also in old existing quests.
But as you said yourself, most players have killed Vacor or Unzel long before reaching Remgard the first time. And if not then all they have to do is to travel once more.

We would have to find the right place in the code that fixes it, and then test that it doesn't break the quest in some other constellation. This is more complex than you might imagine. The work and the risk is just not worth it.

Btw. some moving is very healthy - especially the way to Remgard does wonders to you constitution

[gbro]

.
We would have to find the right place in the code that fixes it, and then test that it doesn't break the quest in some other constellation. This is more complex than you might imagine. The work and the risk is just not worth it.

Well ok, maybe I'll have a shot at it, but probably not anytime soon (I wouldn't even be able to use ATCS at this moment)
(I know of course that if I did manage to do it it's not guaranteed you'd accept the change, for the risk of breaking things)

Btw. some moving is very healthy - especially the way to Remgard does wonders to you constitution

I'm not sure about that, I had to rest for months away from Andor's Trail after my first (very premature) visit to Remgard

[Antison]

Let's be honest here. You going to Remgard before committing to the completion of that < level 10 quest is on you. AT is about choices and consequences and pretty much forcing you to make a decision one way or another. This will not be the first quest that you will run into this dilemma.

[gbro]

Let's be honest here. You going to Remgard before committing to the completion of that < level 10 quest is on you. AT is about choices and consequences and pretty much forcing you to make a decision one way or another. This will not be the first quest. Will you run into this dilemma.

Antison there's no "< level 10" mark on that quest, there's nothing warning you to complete all < level 10 quests before going east , and most of all I saw several players that like me did begin the quest but postponed finishing it exactly because it implied a drastic decision.
Anyhow this is not about me, I actually did know what I was doing, as I had mentioned in another thread

[gbro]

Anyhow, I had prepared a first patch proposal:

Code: Select all

---
 AndorsTrail/res/raw/conversationlist_kaverin.json | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/AndorsTrail/res/raw/conversationlist_kaverin.json b/AndorsTrail/res/raw/conversationlist_kaverin.json
index fd3f00aa..92a7b166 100644
--- a/AndorsTrail/res/raw/conversationlist_kaverin.json
+++ b/AndorsTrail/res/raw/conversationlist_kaverin.json
@@ -122,7 +122,7 @@
         "message":"You wouldn't by any chance have met him, would you?",
         "replies":[
             {
-                "text":"No, I've never met him.",
+                "text":"Hmmmm I'm not sure, a bug prevents me from remembering well Σ(-᷅_-᷄ ๑) . However, if I have met him I for sure haven't done what he asked me to do yet, otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about bugs! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ",
                 "nextPhraseID":"kaverin_5"
             },
             {
--

[gbro]

[Antison]

Nothing needs to be patched here.