Andor's Trail

Osho wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:33 pm

Antison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:40 am Nonsense. There are a lot of great skills out there. Some go beyond the stats that you listed.

I am saying based on utility vs costs. Each point takes 4 levels of XP investment. Fortitude is the only skill worth investing as 1 point alone gives good results. Rest of the skills require more points to be interesting or useful. And I am not spending more on some regen or taunt gimmick, when I can boost my AC, BC significantly for the same. Also equipment and potions are available as better replacement to some of those skills.

I completely disagree. Let's say for example you want a tank build. You're going to jack up your block chance as high as you can possibly get it while still being competitive.
Going with a skill like taunt is a natural thing to do with a tank build. With all those monsters, missing you all those times when it be nice to be able to benefit from that taunt skill?
The answer is yes. It is extremely fun and powerful

Evasion is good for that too. If you stand next to a monster it has a 15% chance to attack you, even if it can't move onto your tile. With three levels of Evasion that chance drops to zero, so on many maps there are a lot more safe places to stand. On such maps you can gradually work your way across the map, especially if you have one level of Regeneration.

rijackson741 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:09 pm That's not true. Many skills give you something other than just AC, BC, DR (especially if you consider that level ups give you a static amount even of those, whereas skills can give you a multiplier).

OP wants to buyback skills to try different builds. Assume such an option is available. What do skills have to offer a level 40+ build to invest 3 to 4 points worth of XP?
Multipliers, additions also require a base equipment otherwise how shall it work? So if I wish to try a different build I lose all the skill points the moment base equipment also changes!

Skills like fortitude are more suitable to invest as they improve players inherent ability over levels unlike others that require certain preconditions to be fulfilled, which anyways can be found through other means.

Antison wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:57 pm I completely disagree. Let's say for example you want a tank build. You're going to jack up your block chance as high as you can possibly get it while still being competitive.
Going with a skill like taunt is a natural thing to do with a tank build. With all those monsters, missing you all those times when it be nice to be able to benefit from that taunt skill?
The answer is yes. It is extremely fun and powerful

Taunt is powerful but available at a much later stage when a player is suffiently powerful to combat with many other means to boost stats as per what situation demands.

Also these skills come with odd restrictions on how much can a player level up with some skills having a skill tree of its own that forces player to spend points on them. Better to provide excellent variety of equipments than spending 4 levels worth of XP for a negligible increase in BC

I've never seen a lawful dwarfish berserker that wants to become a chaotic elven musical therapist.

Also skills give you unique capabilities other than HP, BC, AC and AD. And they come additional to your Levels.
My strongest build went for the legendary dual wielding monster and very much neglected BC. At LVL130+ and 500+HP I very much enjoyed the way to sullengard, because the monsters took me by surprise and even got my HP below 80 before I realized I had to be a li'l more careful.
I very much hope for other monsters that challenge me on the weaknesses of my different builds. I want them to drain my HP, to regain HP when hitting me, to swarm me, to block my attacs in the most frustrating way, to... you get it.

The cost for one bad choice in one wrong skill is currently set t o four levels worth of grinding.

And yes, I very much want a 2nd level of taunt that lasts 2 rounds and a 3rd level that stacks the effect.

Osho wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:29 am
Multipliers, additions also require a base equipment otherwise how shall it work? So if I wish to try a different build I lose all the skill points the moment base equipment also changes!

Osho wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:29 am Taunt is powerful but available at a much later stage when a player is suffiently powerful to combat with many other means to boost stats as per what situation demands.

Also these skills come with odd restrictions on how much can a player level up with some skills having a skill tree of its own that forces player to spend points on them. Better to provide excellent variety of equipments than spending 4 levels worth of XP for a negligible increase in BC

Taunt can be attained at as low as level 32. In fact, I've done this.
Thes "odd restrictions" as you call them, are there for balance.

We are not going to let players reset their skill points for various reasons. Already stated many times. But I'll say it again, Magic Finder for example. People going to abuse this resetting of it. A jacket up to say level three or four and then get the item that they're grinding for and then decide. Oh, I want to "sell it back".

Antison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:38 am Taunt can be attained at as low as level 32.
We are not going to let players reset their skill points for various reasons.

Leveling up is a time consuming affair and 4 levels a point (taunt has a skill tree) makes it unattractive later.
Taunt will require me to focus more on BC over AC, and without a high enough AC the skill won't matter if I miss attacks on high BC monsters. So its going to take a lot of levels than 32 to fully work against high level monsters. I know how hard it is to balance AC and BC. It's not possible to have both good even at L40. Player has to choose a build between AC or BC. Which is why skills are just not attractive except fortitude and naturally no point in asking for resetting if I could have my hands on cool equipment and potions that are much more fun than taunt

But Taunt is pure fun! I imagine to mock my tapsy monster each time it misses:
Haha! Too slow! I am here...

Osho wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:45 am

Antison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:38 am Taunt can be attained at as low as level 32.
We are not going to let players reset their skill points for various reasons.

Leveling up is a time consuming affair and 4 levels a point (taunt has a skill tree) makes it unattractive later.
Taunt will require me to focus more on BC over AC, and without a high enough AC the skill won't matter if I miss attacks on high BC monsters. So its going to take a lot of levels than 32 to fully work against high level monsters. I know how hard it is to balance AC and BC. It's not possible to have both good even at L40. Player has to choose a build between AC or BC. Which is why skills are just not attractive except fortitude and naturally no point in asking for resetting if I could have my hands on cool equipment and potions that are much more fun than taunt

Yes, I get what you mean about Taunt, but it like other skills that have dependencies in order to access them, you need to plan your build around them.

Would one of the special crystals per skill point be a viable option for a buy back system? ... or perhaps one of those crystals could be used/sold FOR a skill point?

I'd love to add some skill points into reducing physical ailments (AP reduction/attacks cost more AP) by selling those crystals