classes

[Tomcat]

the way i see it, classes are a source of skills.
they are focused on what that character does [professions, hobbies, etc.]
classes also set multiple characters apart, based on these differences.
(each class having its job to do supporting the party)

sure, our hero meets a mage & a few thieves along the way,
but i consider his class to be "hero" - adept at the varitey of skills available.
being alone in his quest, his best bet is to be well rounded.

classes also suggest restrictions
the ChaR seems like a mage weapon or spell - but our hero can use it freely
and mages in most RPG's cant equip shields like our hero can.

so, in my eyes our hero is a tiny jack-of-all-trades. no class system needed.
maybe he can apply at the academy in Blackwater & learn some 'buff' spells

The problem with that theory is that our Hero is *not* well rounded. He does one thing well .. hack and slash. "All the skills available" are generally geared towards that style. Crits vs defense etc are just variations. Because the game currently has only one class: Fighter.

[nyktos]

so, why not just add more skills?
it's a much simpler fix for adding character depth.

(in my humble opinion)

[oshuma]

so, why not just add more skills?
it's a much simpler fix for adding character depth.

(in my humble opinion)

That would be a quicker fix, but I think eventually you'll be starved for variety in skills. Classes + skills give even more versatility in character building. So, as Tomcat suggested, there could be General skills (available to all classes) as well as class-specific skills; Thief could get 'Steal', Mages could get 'Alchemy' to create potions, etc.

[phydeaux]

A few points:
First off, a number of posters have asked for "replayability factor" which is one thing a class system definitely addresses.
Secondly, playing as a warrior class hero is the same as playing the game as it stands now.
Thirdly, as oshuma said, he is mainly doing this coding out of boredom, I'm participating as a mental exercise and practicing java formatting, and I'm pretty sure tomcat is in the same boat as one our both of us

just sayin

[nyktos]

right on

i have watched a few "jobs / classes" threads come & go and i've never commented.
so i thought i'd finally share my thoughts on the issue, maybe bounce some ideas around.
i like any suggestion that sparks up a conversation or debate!
who knows where it could lead?

[Tomcat]

Most of the changes went into the Player and Savegames classes, with some changes to WorldSetup. I had to pass around a Context in a couple places, but I've tried to keep the same method signatures where possible (with sensible defaults otherwise).

Still learning what these higher level constructs are about, but your changes seem pretty clear so far, just setting up that there is a field called Job that needs to be filled in for new characters and saved, with implications for starting stats.

As it stands now, the only difference in the jobs/classes is their starting stat modifiers. Having job specific skills is definitely on the TODO list, but this is just a rough sketch so not sure how I'll implement those yet. Also, the existing 3 jobs (Fighter, Theif, Mage) are just templates I used to get the ball rolling. We could start a thread for job requests to make things more interesting (Barbarian, Witch Doctor, etc.).

Sure there are lots of classes that it would be fun to see (monk, tourist, valkyrie, bard), but I think it would be better to start simple, with just three or four classes, and see if the demand for adding more arises later.

As far as job specific skills, I'm up for suggestions. A neat Thief skill would be the typical 'Steal' where you could get a random drop-item (or gold) from a monster (or possibly NPC). As far as Mage skills, since there isn't any ranged combat (yet), the spells could just act like a normal attack (must hit closest enemy). We might want to implement some sort of MP for mage-type jobs, so they could use that to cast spells and use AP for normal attacks/item usage.

Steal sounds good ... Would have to update the combat controller, or only allow it outside of combat (moving in for the steal instead of the attack, failing automatically if the monster attacks you first). Perhaps also a separate function built into the NPC shopping dialog that, if it succeeds, lets you pinch an item for free, with chance of success inversely proportional to price, capped such that at a given level, a high enough price makes an object steal-proof.

I was also thinking that Evasion for thieves could be better than for Fighters..a higher percentage per skill level.

So far in the game, there are no locks to pick (or break or even unlock), so that typical thief function would take some serious revamping to implement.

Mage spells should use up mana or spell points, which need rest to restore. Potions and/or just passing of time could also restore them. Casting them in combat would also take up AP, just like using an item or swinging a sword.

Oh, and I've created an issue on the Google Code repo site, so once the details get worked out maybe it'll get merged into the main repo.

http://code.google.com/p/andors-trail/i ... ail?id=295

Excellent, thanks! Have you been able to build and test anything yet?

[Tomcat]

A few points:
First off, a number of posters have asked for "replayability factor" which is one thing a class system definitely addresses.
Secondly, playing as a warrior class hero is the same as playing the game as it stands now.
Thirdly, as oshuma said, he is mainly doing this coding out of boredom, I'm participating as a mental exercise and practicing java formatting, and I'm pretty sure tomcat is in the same boat as one our both of us

just sayin

+1

Another coding idea I'm looking at is allowing some monsters, when provoked, to move toward the player instead of randomly. Then to allow them to move during combat. Then allow them to join combat against the player. But that's a different thread, if anyone has a response on that....

[Tomcat]

so, why not just add more skills?
it's a much simpler fix for adding character depth.

(in my humble opinion)

Well, another idea would be to simply give everyone mana points, possibly zero at start but with a level up option, and then simply add skills for spells ans mana management, plus skills for thieving, and let every player have the full range of possibities for generalization or specialization in various directions. That could be quite interesting, too.

[oshuma]

Sure there are lots of classes that it would be fun to see (monk, tourist, valkyrie, bard), but I think it would be better to start simple, with just three or four classes, and see if the demand for adding more arises later.

I assume you're a Nethack fan?

Steal sounds good ... Would have to update the combat controller, or only allow it outside of combat (moving in for the steal instead of the attack, failing automatically if the monster attacks you first). Perhaps also a separate function built into the NPC shopping dialog that, if it succeeds, lets you pinch an item for free, with chance of success inversely proportional to price, capped such that at a given level, a high enough price makes an object steal-proof.

I was also thinking that Evasion for thieves could be better than for Fighters..a higher percentage per skill level.

So far in the game, there are no locks to pick (or break or even unlock), so that typical thief function would take some serious revamping to implement.

Mage spells should use up mana or spell points, which need rest to restore. Potions and/or just passing of time could also restore them. Casting them in combat would also take up AP, just like using an item or swinging a sword.

Terrific. I especially like the thieving from merchants idea. That could lead to all sorts of 'fun' behavior if you end up getting caught.

Excellent, thanks! Have you been able to build and test anything yet?

Yep! I have 3 Android devices sitting at my desk. A Samsung Dart, Toshiba Thrive (tablet) and an old G1. Game runs great on all of them; although on the tablet, the UI is a bit small in some places (the scaling option fixes this in most cases). I suspect the game was originally intended to be played on phones, so not sure how much work has gone into making the layouts look nice on larger tablet screens.

[phydeaux]

Well, assuming it isn't being used for something else, and since oshuma said he didn't put it there, I think there is already a mana counter in the stats list, it's just not used yet... Wouldn't really surprise me a it seems oskar has been working towards adding some b basic spells into the game

Lol, btw, I dunno if valkyrie would work... That would be a female character