Super Bowl Prediction...

[pugsrule]

Chester....

I understand your dislike for Tebow. I have no problem with it, but I do think that the reasons you gave are not the real ones.

For one, he does not sensationalize his "prayer". Is kneeling quietly more sensational than what other players do after scoring a TD, prancing, dancing, moon walking, summersaults, etc., etc.? He's been doing it for years and it hasn't been an issue.

I'd wager you don't dislike him personally, but what he represents. He could be Joe Smith and you'd dislike Joe Smith, because he OVERTLY and SENSATIONALLY prays on the field.

[Chest_Rockfield]

I'm not a religious person, but if I'm not misinformed, God gave man/woman free will, meaning that nothing is preordained or written in advance. In other words, our choices determine how we live our life and what becomes of it.

Assuming that the Christian conception of god is the accurate conception of god, let alone there not even being a metaphysical being currently or previously being in existence, god does know everything that will ever happen, and cannot be wrong about it.

This is not religious gobbledygook, it is supported by quantum mechanics (QM). Prior to the many-worlds theory of QM, "reality had always been viewed as a single unfolding history. Many-worlds, however, views reality as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized" (wikipedia).

This is irrelevant. Whether or not there are alternate realities, or just one, if the Christian conception of god is accurate, he'd know everything in all realities, and the same argument I made previously would still stand.

God "might know the outcome of every game for the rest of eternity", but does that inhibit the "players" from trying their best, specially in light that we all have free will and our own actions determine our future? To use an analogy, it's like Biff in Back to the future knowing the results of the games in the future.

Trying their best, no. It actually requires not that they try their best, but rather that they try the exact amount that god already knew they were going to try, resulting it the exact things happening that he already knew were going to happen. I don't know anything about Back to the Future, but praying to the single entity in the universe that already knows the unchangeable outcome of something to change it, is stupid no matter how you slice it.
To simplify it, let's try an analogy. Let's say you and a friend want to determine who gets to go first in a game you've invented, so you ask me to flip a coin for you. As I flip the coin, you call heads. Per standard casual coin flipping rules I catch the coin in my right hand and flip it onto the back of the other where I take a peek at it, but do not yet show you or your friend. Because I am honest and fair, and have no vested interest in whether you or your friend get to go first at Ultimate Flame Ball, and have both of you looking right at my hands, I can't and won't cheat to change the outcome of the coin flip. At this point, you beg me to change the coin flip so that you are the winner of it, even though I'm right in front of you both, I already know what it is, and can't do a single thing about it even if I wanted to. Your begging is: A. Useless B. Stupid C. Annoying D. All of the above. The correct answer, of course, is D.

[nyktos]

kinda playin with fire here...

do we need a "friendly & P.C." Tebow thread?



i predict that the halftime show will bomb! (again)
and...
the commercials will be more entertaining than the game! (again)

[Chest_Rockfield]

I understand your dislike for Tebow. I have no problem with it, but I do think that the reasons you gave are not the real ones.

Why would I give fake reasons for why I dislike someone? I assure you, I always say what I mean and mean what I say.

For one, he does not sensationalize his "prayer".

You and I disagree on what constitutes sensationalism. I think overtly kneeling down in a repeated, recognizable, awkward manner to alert the MILLIONS who are watching that he is praying is the very definition of sensationalism.

Is kneeling quietly more sensational than what other players do after scoring a TD, prancing, dancing, moon walking, summersaults, etc., etc.?

Celebrating a victory, however small, could be sensationalized, but the action is both understandable and expected. Overtly praying over it is stupid and unnecessary. I would say the same thing about people who thank god for their Grammy win in the gangster rap category (any category really, I just wanted to highlight an absurd example).

He's been doing it for years and it hasn't been an issue.

An issue to whom? Had it been sensationalized enough that I had heard about it, I would have thought it stupid then.

I'd wager you don't dislike him personally, but what he represents. He could be Joe Smith and you'd dislike Joe Smith, because he OVERTLY and SENSATIONALLY prays on the field.

I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive. Can I not dislike him personally because of what he represents? Can I not also dislike others that do the same thing? Didn't I say that very thing several posts ago (and this post) about Grammy winners? It would be no different than me not liking the act of driving under the influence and also personally disliking a specific drunk driver.

[nyktos]

kinda playin with fire here...

do we need a "friendly & P.C." Tebow thread?



i predict that the halftime show will bomb! (again)
and...
the commercials will be more entertaining than the game! (again)

[Chest_Rockfield]

kinda playin with fire here...

do we need a "friendly & P.C." Tebow thread?

I don't think there is anything unfriendly about our exchange. Pugsrule and I are having a completely respectful and civilized debate.

i predict that the halftime show will bomb! (again)
and...
the commercials will be more entertaining than the game! (again)

TRUTH!

[nyktos]

no worries, just a very touchy subject... (religeon, i mean...)
and a little thread drift.

[Chest_Rockfield]

We're in Fallhaven tipping a few back though, so thread drift is all good, right?

[nyktos]

ok, i was making excuses...



i love a good debate, dont get me wrong!
just concerned about sensitive readers

no one has been disrespectful, in my eyes...
(but, then again, im not all that sensitive)

[pugsrule]

Agreed Chester, no offense intended and none taken. I like to debate ideas more than agreeing and preaching to the choir (no pun intended).

Even though we disagree, I commend you for being civil and courteous in your responses. I've found that too many people personalize and get extremely heated when they discuss certain issues.

Pax vobiscum