THE GANDHI CHALLENGE --- How far can YOU go?

[BethelAbba]

Zukero --- how about this for simplifying this:

EXP + total monsters killed / (number of missions finished PLUS the number of bosses killed).

Thus my score would be

EXP 2504 + 22 = 2526 / (9+1) = 252.6 or 253 total

I am not sure that it is the best way to go at this, but it sure simplifies the math.

I am just not sure that it would help with those who do like Kashim did.

[Kashim]

I would propose no penalty for exp; the actual problem would be taking lives, not simply gaining experience. Gandhi was a big fan of learning actually. I would say something more along the lines of 10 points per quest completed, minus 3 points per creature killed. This would open up a lot more quests (and leveling) but not suffer from the "don't make the divisor go up by even a point" problem. This would mean that things like finding Oromir would be valid, but you wouldn't want to kill any of the ants on the way...

also, you could do the loneford loophole and actually have a character who wouldn't die in one hit...

as to why Gandhi wouldn't have a problem with experience:
Gandhi said:
True education must correspond to the surrounding circumstances or it is not a healthy growth.
- Young India, 12-3-1925

Gandhi was a big believer in education, but believed that it should be a very practical education, learned with one's hands and from one's surroundings. That would be exactly the kind of education you would get from experience.

[Voom]

Very good point Kashim, experience is earned from quests and kills. So If this challenge is to be feasible let us count only the number of monsters killed as the divisible portion of the formula. This eliminates the imbalances of exp from quests and monsters.

Let us reset this thread. The following will be the rules summarized concisely and my suggestion for the GANDHI Score.

Rules:
1. No weapons are allowed – bare-fist attacks only.
2. Only cloth and leather armor are allowed.
3. Only bucklers for shields are allowed.
4. Rings and necklaces are allowed.
5. No 'Villain' equipment allowed.
6. Only HP and BC level ups are allowed.
7. No AD, AC, and Crit skills are allowed.
8. No meat, perch, bone meal, or alcohol consumables are allowed.
9. Everything else is up to you.

Winner & GANDHI Score:
The winner will be the one that achieves the highest number of quests with the least amount of deaths and kills.

Proposed formula – GANDHI Score = ((Quests x 10) + (Bosses x 10)) / ((Deaths ^ 2) + Kills)

Highest GANDHI Score wins!

Reward:
A cameo of a name of your choosing for an NPC of your choosing in a future update.

[BethelAbba]

Very good point Kashim, experience is earned from quests and kills. So If this challenge is to be feasible let us count only the number of monsters killed as the divisible portion of the formula. This eliminates the imbalances of exp from quests and monsters.

Let us reset this thread. The following will be the rules summarized concisely and my suggestion for the GANDHI Score.

Rules:
1. No weapons are allowed – bare-fist attacks only.
2. Only cloth and leather armor are allowed.
3. Only bucklers for shields are allowed.
4. Rings and necklaces are allowed.
5. No 'Villain' equipment allowed.
6. Only HP and BC level ups are allowed.
7. No AD, AC, and Crit skills are allowed.
8. No meat, perch, bone meal, or alcohol consumables are allowed.
9. Everything else is up to you.

Winner & GANDHI Score:
The winner will be the one that achieves the highest number of quests with the least amount of deaths and kills.

Proposed formula – GANDHI Score = ((Quests x 10) + (Bosses x 10)) / ((Deaths ^ 2) + Kills)

Highest GANDHI Score wins!

Reward:
A cameo of a name of your choosing for an NPC of your choosing in a future update.

I am OK with the proposed change to the math --- just run it through one time so we can see what you're talking about.

my only question is "Highest score wins" --- which would simply prompt some people taking the challenge to kill more monsters to get a higher score.

As for the reward.... that is in the hands of the DEV. Zuklero.... what do you think?

As for my character --- I ran into a time impasse over the last 2 weeks. Some extra project fell into my lap and consumed all extra time I had to play. I'll hopefully give it a go this weekend and see if I get any further.

[BethelAbba]

Voom --- I updated the initial post with your short form rules list included as a tagged spoiler. You've gained credit for that much for sure. I tend to be wordy when explaining things... it is my curse.

[Voom]

Ok, let us say the numbers are like this..
Quests - 8
Bosses - 1
Deaths - 0
Kills - 22

This would mean your GANDHI Score would be: ((8 x 10) + (1 x 10)) / ((0 ^ 2) + 22) = 90 / 22 = 4.1
Since the number of kills is in the denominator it would mean that the more kills you have, the smaller your score is.

Perhaps we should increase the Quest and Boss multiplier by 100 instead of 10 so that the score is 41 rather than 4.1 for looks.

[BethelAbba]

Kashim --- You've been following (and working through) this challenge.... what are your thoughts on Voom's math equation for this?

[Kashim]

It depends on the spirit of the challenge. It still suffers from the "kills in the denominator problem". Any time you put the kills in a divisor, in any way, then the maximum score is going to be achieved without achieving any kills, at all.
A quick theoretical situation: you clear the 3 quests I did before, which require no kills. Your score is now 30. You go do Calomyran secrets, which will get you a quest and a boss, but increase the divisor by 1. You end up with 25. You still cannot get any kills and increase your score. The bosses don't make this challenge.

My new score, with that scoring system, is 70.

Quests completed:
Breakfast bread
Missing Husband (I dodged all the ants)
Drunken Tale
Spies in the foam
Lost Sheep
Feygard Errands
Flows through the veins

My character is now level 10, with IF and Regeneration. 50HP, and 15% natural block chance. I kind of have a beef though with what I've had to do to get this far. Breakfast Bread and Lost sheep are both purely good acts. Literally all of the rest required me to do something that Gandhi would never do;

Missing Husband I had to lie to the husband about keeping his secret.
Drunken Tale I had to buy mead for someone else.
Spies in the foam I had to lie and trick a guard to leave his post.
Feygard Errands I had to carry a weapons delivery.
Flows through the veins I had to agree not to tell that someone poisoned the well of a village and made a pile of people sick (Gandhi would NEVER do this).

I feel like being truly good is just not really something you can do in this game. However, in keeping with the spirit of the game my character is on a hunger strike. He has never eaten any food, or used any item, ever.
Ironically, this didn't really take any work from me. I already complete all of these quests whenever starting a new character, so I already knew which ones to do, I just had to leave out a couple that had kills involved.

[Voom]

Kashim, are you saying that you can't do good when siding with the Shadow?! I'm glad somebody agrees!!

Anyway, I would argue that knowing which quests to go to is the challenge. You would have an advantage. But seeing how easy it was for you to come up with a list of easy quests to complete, this challenge doesn't seem so challenging. However, the 7 quests you listed are only 13% of all quests.

I have to agree that Gandhi wouldn't make some of the decisions you made in those 7 quests. Completing those shady quests are arguably more ethically significant than eating meat. So, for that reason, this should probably be re-thought. Bethel, very good idea though.

[Kashim]

I'm definitely saying that I can't do good while turning a blind eye to poisoning a whole bunch of people, regardless of reasoning. I'm also not a fan of supporting other people's bad (drug/alcohol) habits, lying to the authorities (guards), getting in the middle of other people's marital affairs, or carrying weapons that were designed to be used on people.

Ghandi would do Breakfast Bread and Lost Sheep. He would find a way to lock the rats out of the garden without killing them. He would find a way to get the big rats out (and keep them out) of the supply cave without killing them. He would lure the angry wasps away from the decimated forest to the forest right next to it with a bunch of honey or something. He would do his best to arbitrate between Prim and Blackwater. He may or may not report Larcal to the authorities. He would figure out a way to tell Wyre about her son without killing the beetles in the middle (I REALLY wanted to do that one, but the stupid beetles in the middle would have messed with the score).

I will say, this quest definitely made me rethink the morality involved in this game. While I am no Gandhi, thinking about it this way, a lot of the quests really don't sit right with me.
Why do Tinlin's sheep deserve to die, just because Tinlin did something bad? He is reformed now, or seems to be. Doesn't he deserve that second chance?
Why do I buy the drunk more beer? Can't I have him sober up and tell me his tale?
Why did I blindly believe Vacor enough to just go out and kill 4 people?

I'm beginning to feel like a lot of this game is like the Kobayashi Maru, full of piles of no-win scenarios.