Balancing leveling statictic bonuses (AD, HP, AC, BC)

[nyktos]

I think the fundamentals of this game were quite well thought out...

this just about sums it up for me

well put!!! +1!

for the first 20 - 40 levels of the game -this- feels perfect! (IMHO)

Code: Select all

+5 HP
+5% AC
+1 AD
+3% BC

We must first see what decisions are reached after the combat changes are discussed.

[Sarumar]

I think the fundamentals of this game were quite well thought out...

for the first 20 - 40 levels of the game -this- feels perfect! (IMHO) .

In this case, I disagree with you Nyktos. Please, turn my head and let us know.. how many times (total of your's all builds) you have chosen +5HP

[lady black]

I don't know about nyktos, but I took it about 10 times, in getting to level 72 before the skill points came out. I got 17 points, and used one on Increased Fortitude. I have since added a second IF level. I have not taken the HP since the skill points were introduced. At that time, gear that increases your health points was also introduced (or maybe just greatly increased), which also gives an alternative to taking HP at level-up. Making it +8 instead of +5 would not make me take it in place of BC or AD, which are what I have used level-ups for since the skill points, and still need more than HP.

[Sarumar]

I don't know about nyktos, but I took it about 10 times, in getting to level 72 before the skill points came out. I got 17 points, and used one on Increased Fortitude. I have since added a second IF level. I have not taken the HP since the skill points were introduced. At that time, gear that increases your health points was also introduced (or maybe just greatly increased), which also gives an alternative to taking HP at level-up. Making it +8 instead of +5 would not make me take it in place of BC or AD, which are what I have used level-ups for since the skill points, and still need more than HP.

Well said my lady.

I also start buildin my main character before the current rules of skills. In the very beginning of my main build, I choose +5 to HP more than ten times - And after the skill upgrade, no one of my new build's have chosen +5HP.

[nyktos]

this character feels a lot stronger my other builds...
the order in which i chose to grow has lead me to have a lvl 40 that feels like a lvl 60!
none of the advancements were made on a whim, nor do i regret a single choice made.

GREAT thread here BTW
this was needed, and the timing couldn't be better!
(next meeting is sunday the 29th)

i wanted high AD quickly...
i wanted a quick healer...
i wanted great skills quickly...

but...

i cant get hasty plotting my development!
ok, so... how do i get the most powerful skills and gear early?

i study my choices carefully & plot a course,
filling in the gaps & weaknesses in my natural stats with gear.

my early purchases were focused on AC & BC gear,
because i neglected building them this early.

_______________________________________________

lvl. 1 = +1AD [2]
lvl. 2 = +1AD [3]
lvl. 3 = +1AD [4]
lvl. 4 = +1AD [5] - [ Increased Fortitude ] ( lvl. 5 needed )

lvl. 5 = +1AD [6]
lvl. 6 = +1AD [7]
lvl. 7 = +1AD [8]
lvl. 8 = +5HP (33HP) - [ Regeneration ] ( 30HP needed )

lvl. 9 = +5AC
lvl. 10 = +5AC
lvl. 11 = +5AC
lvl. 12 = +5HP (42HP) - [ Corpse Eater ] ( 40HP needed )

lvl. 13 = +1AD [9]
lvl. 14 = +5AC
lvl. 15 = +5AC
lvl. 16 = +5HP (51HP) - [ Evasion ] (as an experiment)

lvl. 17 = +1AD [10]
lvl. 18 = +5AC
lvl. 19 = +5AC
lvl. 20 = +5HP (60HP) - [ Corpse Eater 2 ] ( 60HP needed )
________________________________________________

so, at level 20 with 60HP...

i can use Bonemeal comfortably!
i can safely clear Flagstone Prison for the sword!
i can safely grind Malevelon's Cave for the ring!

and essentially, ...

with the RoLS & Regen you get 2HP per 6sec.
with Corpse Eater you get 2HP per kill.

cheap & quick healing, hard hits & impressive skills - all very early!

in closing: i think that Increased Fortitude should be capped, possibly as low as two.
i've thought so for quite some time - after trying every build i could think of.

i feel it would be prudent to adjust the most recent additions to the game [skills]
(as opposed to changing the way we level up)

AD should be left alone until we decide how we are going to spice up combat
the idea is to have choices other than just "attack"

HP should be left alone until Skills have been balanced...
(criticals are being changed, condition defenses are being discussed, etc.)

HP and AD are related in this regard, just as AC is related to BC.
you shouldn't one thing in the game without considering other aspects related to that change.

just my opinions here, thanks for reading!
i highly doubt that any changes made will be for the worse...
this is a Dream Team!!!

Mad Love to the AT world!
Developers, Contributors, Forum Members, Everyone!!!
Thank you for everything.

[Antison]

As far as thinking that increased fortitude should be capped...WELCOME TO MY WORLD. I have been saying this since November.

I never could understand why bark skin is capped but increased fortitude isn't.

[Piggy the Slayer]

+1 Cap it at 2.

[Sarumar]

+1 cap it at 2 !

[buddyCasino]

The game is balanced incredibly well IMHO. And I am very confident that future changes to the fighting system will be balanced just as well. Of course changes may require to start over again to adjust character build strategies, but I think past character building decisions shouldn't restrict future development at all.

HP +5 per level is okay in my opinion. Either you pick Increased Fortitude or you increase HPs every now and then. Keep in mind that Attack damage +1 is subject to modifiers and therefore more powerful than just that one point. Lowering base damage may increase importance of that one point even more if it affects the lower boundary as well (0-2 changes to 1-3, for example)

I'm looking forward to more volatility in damage values. Always inflicting X plus / minus 10% points seems boring to me.

[Usirim]

When 0.6.10 hits the market, I needed quit some time to get over the frustation I have to create a new Char because of the impact of the increased fortitude skill. My old Char was around lvl 50 and had HP of 40 to 50 - I cannot remember that exactly any more. It was like "wasting a lot of time" with this old Char.
Now my 0.6.10-Char is at Lvl 73. I like this Char a lot and had him after reaching lvl 62 restartet at lvl 25 to get the magic finder skill for some RolS. I have much more fun with this Char than ever before.

It is hard to spend so much time for Char development and restart with an new Char with an AT-update. On the other hand there is always the chance to change the direction of Char development. But I don't think this weights up the lost time equally. So I can understand every player which thinks about quitting the game when a new version turns the game play upside down because of frustration.

But every once in a while I think of different Char setup. One thought is setting the min damage to zero (only the increased damage skill gives a +1 min). But that would make the game so much harder, especially low lvl Chars would be a pain to level up. The increased fortitude skill would get even more a must be when selecting new skills.

How to balance the effect of the min AD change? For example:
- Increase of startup HP to 50
- Decrease(!) needed Exp. for level up. While game is getting harder it is useful to level up faster.
- Change the "+1 AD" to "+2 max AD" AND add a new "+1 min AD" for level up selection.
- The rings and weapons stats would be adapted (lowered min AD for all but extraordinary items).
- New skill (effect: +1 attack for every 10 hits) with limit to level 5 (means +1 attack for every 5 hits).
- Limit increased fortitude to lvl 5.
- Re-balance the monsters.

This are some thoughts that are going through my mind. If this is playable or dis-balance the game - I don't know.
Sometimes I dream of coding a "AT rmx" to test such ideas but since my java skills are somewhere in the range of -10 it is very unlikely that I can provide more than just some ideas...