[S] Revise Quick Learner

Unstructured ideas, requests and suggestions for the development of the game.
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fiernaq
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by fiernaq » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:11 pm

Ha ha, Sarumar. Stop leveling :P

Seriously, though, by the time game content reaches a point where level 300 is the norm I'm sure there will be plenty of monsters which give so much more XP that you won't need a QL more powerful than 200% (and even that will be fast lvling). In other words, boosting QL to the point where it is obscenely overpowered is not a valid long term solution when it would be much more effective to make a variable QL that peaks out and which allows XP gained from monster kills and quests to be balanced out better.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013

Sarumar
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Sarumar » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:23 pm

fiernaq wrote:Ha ha, Sarumar. Stop leveling :P

Seriously, though, by the time game content reaches a point where level 300 is the norm I'm sure there will be plenty of monsters which give so much more XP that you won't need a QL more powerful than 200% (and even that will be fast lvling). In other words, boosting QL to the point where it is obscenely overpowered is not a valid long term solution when it would be much more effective to make a variable QL that peaks out and which allows XP gained from monster kills and quests to be balanced out better.
... One question for you.... Are you weak or lazy ... or why you want to change this ?
Last edited by Sarumar on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

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Mad P
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Location: Back in the caves again

Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Mad P » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:35 pm

I think Fiernaq's point is, this game is not made (yet) for very high levels.
There's really no challenging content now, every trip to remgard or BWM is a walk over once you're past level 80.

For all of you die-hard levellers, I really admire your persistency but I can't understand why you don't just park your main character until there's new content - and start over with a new challenging build. That way, you'll see the benefits of Fiernaq's proposal: in order to get levels faster when it really counts (between levels 10-40) the proposed % change helps a lot!
Still playing this game at level 5, collected all extraordinaries, now some precious ring would be useful...

Lvl: 5, XP: 190789
GoLF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, ChaR: 1, ShaF: 1
Gold:28158, HP: 66, AC: 191%, AD: 10-17, AP: 3, CC: 0%, CM: 0, BC: -10%, DR: 0

Sarumar
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Sarumar » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:12 pm

@Map P +/- ... You say it ... ;) .. There is no reason or need to make early leveling any faster..

FYI... i have builds waiting for update....
Sarumar
..dansing left foot polka with Hirathil

Lvl 313|XP 559721474|Gold 7965188|AP 3/12|AC 516|AD 161-175|ECC 48|CM 6|BC 311|HP 591|DR 2|RoLS 3|RoL 2|ElyR 2|ChaR 45|GoLF 3|ShaF 9|SRoV 28|VSH 13|GoW 1|WMC 1

Mino
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Mino » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:44 pm

Speaking only for myself, the reasons I keep leveling instead of starting a new game, are:

1) I'm obsessive compulsive, so it's in my nature to stick to one game.
2) I don't consider there to be such a thing as overpowered and want more and more power
3) future proofing - I want to be able to handle any new challenges that the updates bring
4) my current reason for leveling is to have a few skill points saved up to use if new skills are introduced. Planning on 3 or 4, depending on how patient I can be.
Last edited by Mino on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lvl: 206 XP: 159262572, Gold: 1657119, RoLS: 2, ElyR: 1, RoL: 1, ChaR: 2, GoLF: 1, ShaF: 6, SRoV: 1, VSH: 6, WMC: 1, GoW: 1
HP: 241, AP: 3, AC: 562%, AD: 116-130, CM: 3.0, ECC: 38%, BC: 139%, DR: 3

IF 1, Reg 1, CE 1, Ev 3, Clv 2, MC 3 QL 25, MF 2

7/9/14

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Mad P
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Mad P » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:22 pm

Sarumar wrote:There is no reason or need to make early leveling any faster
;) Sarumar, this is true for the QL skill in general, but that would be another topic...
Mino wrote:2) I don't consider there to be such a thing as overpowered and want more and more power
:twisted: Ok, ok, point made, you win! I'm all out of arguments against this one :lol:
Still playing this game at level 5, collected all extraordinaries, now some precious ring would be useful...

Lvl: 5, XP: 190789
GoLF: 1, SRoV: 1, VSH: 1, ChaR: 1, ShaF: 1
Gold:28158, HP: 66, AC: 191%, AD: 10-17, AP: 3, CC: 0%, CM: 0, BC: -10%, DR: 0

Piggy the Slayer
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Piggy the Slayer » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:06 pm

It's fine as it is. As many have said before there is no substitute for hard grinding. Plus there are so many more interesting choices to spend skill points on.
Level:145 AC: 428% BC:170% DR:4 AD:78-90 AP:12 HP:750 BSS.

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Antison
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Antison » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:51 pm

Piggy the Slayer wrote:It's fine as it is. As many have said before there is no substitute for hard grinding. Plus there are so many more interesting choices to spend skill points on.
+1
I agree 100%

Code: Select all

Lv  AP   HP  AC  AD    BC DR CHS CM ECC
134 3/12 215 285 65-75 201 9
58  4/14 131 241 30-43 186 3
52  3/12 150 261 33-42 81  4 59  3.0 29
52  4/12 163 334 30-47 77  3
49  3/12 99  347 40-46 171 1
49  6/12 131 263 35-80 107 3
48  2/12 121 267 34-43 103 5

Shaaw
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by Shaaw » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:42 pm

I think in the long term, a modification to QL would be of more benefit to the game. The thing about QL right now, is unless you are aiming for a near only QL build, there is no benefit to taking it. It only becomes useful at very high lvls when you don't need to the skill points for other skills. I don't necessarily agree on his exact formula, as I think it makes the later levels of QL too ineffective, but I agree with the premise.

I'd say it would be better to just make it so the first couple skill points are just more valueable, like 5%+(5%-1%*skill level) to lvl 5, then just 5% per lvl after that...

SKILL LVL - NEW(CURRENT)BONUS
1 - 10(5)%
2 - 19(10)%
3 - 27(15)%
4 - 34(20)%
5 - 40(25)%
6 - 45(30)%
7 - 50(35)%
8 - 55(40)%
9 - 60(45)%
10 - 65(50)%

Overall, a raw 15% increase in the bonus spread out over the first 5 levels.
Lvl: 42, XP: 1344539, Gold: 16353, RoLS: 0, ElyR: 0, RoL: 0, ChaR: 0, GoLF: 0, ShaF: 0, SRoV: 0, VSH: 0
HP: 120, AC: 218%, AD: 20-26, AP: 2, ECC: 0%, CM: -, BC: 113%, DR: 3

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fiernaq
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Re: Revise Quick Learner

Post by fiernaq » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:15 pm

Shaaw wrote:I think in the long term, a modification to QL would be of more benefit to the game. The thing about QL right now, is unless you are aiming for a near only QL build, there is no benefit to taking it. It only becomes useful at very high lvls when you don't need to the skill points for other skills. I don't necessarily agree on his exact formula, as I think it makes the later levels of QL too ineffective, but I agree with the premise.
Thank you, at least someone seems to understand my concern :lol:

Like I mentioned in my first post, I might not necessarily have the best of formulas (I tend to go crazy complicated rather than simple and sweet) but it was the idea that low amounts of QL skill are not worth taking and high amounts of QL skill are over powered that I was attempting to address. People seem to be looking at just the straight up 5% increase as a constant and wondering how that could be underpowered at the start and become overpowered but they forget that the % increase from QL is multiplied by the XP gained per monster kill which keeps growing as we add more monsters. Don't forget that in a completed state, you may not even reach level 100 in this game unless you just stick around grinding XP and that even then there will be monsters worth considerably more XP than current ones.

As an example:
With 2 points in QL for 110% and a monster worth 100 XP you gain 110 XP - an insignificant boost.
With 20 points in QL for 200% and a monster worth 300 XP you gain 600 XP - a fairly substantial boost.
With 40 points in QL for 300% and a monster worth 1000 XP you gain 3000 XP - a rather large boost.

I'm considering something more along the lines of this:
With 2 points in QL for 130% and a monster worth 100 XP you gain 130 XP - a minor but worthwhile boost.
With 8 points in QL for 180% and a monster worth 300 XP you gain 540 XP - a fairly substantial boost.
With 20 points in QL for 204% and a monster worth 1000 XP you gain 2040 XP - Decent but not super spectacular.
Anything beyond 20 points in QL rapidly diminishes to somewhere around 205-210% which still gives a pretty decent boost but not enough more to be worth getting (in fact, getting above 15 points is probably not worth it to most people)

@Shaaw, you do manage to fix one of the two concerns of mine (underpowered QL at low skill levels) but could you also come up with a means of making sure people can't just continue stacking QL to the point where it is extremely over powered? There needs to be a stopping or at least slowing down point to prevent most people from just stacking QL to no end.
Level: 58, HP: 102, AC: 295%, AD: 46-56, AP: 2/12, BC: 35%, DR: 4
Gold: 75235 | RoLS: 0 RoL: 0 SRoV: 0 VSH: 0
Skills: IF1, Ev1, Ev2, Ev3, CE1, CS1, CS2, Re1, WA1, HH1, Cl1, HH2, DaggerPro1, LightArmorPro1, ShieldPro1, WA2, Cl2
Equipment: Enhanced Combat Helmet, Serpent's Hauberk, Marrowtaint, Quickstrike Dagger, Remgard Shield, Villain's Ring, Villain's Ring, Leather Gloves Of Attack, Enhanced Combat Boots
Last Updated: 02-Dec-2013

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